Also, why is it always assumed that everybody will get a better night's sleep with their DP than with a small snuggly child? My DP snores very loudly.

The reason I gave up on sleep training was because I was frankly too lazy tired. Sleep training meant I had to get out of bed again and again and again. A muttered 'oh, in you get then' meant I didn't. Often I didn't have to wake up at all. So we were all getting a better quality of sleep.

In retrospect I am happy I didn't insist as it turned out that they were waking due to night pains. The GPs solution was to keep dd on permanent high doses of Co-Codamol. I found my keeping open house at night did the same job, saved the NHS a fortune, probably saved her kidneys- and saved me from having to crawl out of bed at 3 a m and administer same Co-Codamol. It's not as if she was still going to be in there when she's 16 (or even now she is nearly 13).

oh, and for this one:

"9) "They are unable to have sex". This for me is a mystery. If your child is with you most of the time (in bed, or on the sofa hanging out until midnight or so, or playing in the snow at 3 am- sorry couldn't resist the joke) WHEN do you have sex? I'm really curious."

In the slot after they had fallen asleep at bedtime and before they woke up in the night and wanted to come into parental bed. Which was usually a good few hours. Tbh I don't often feel very passionate at 3 am anyway, so fitting it into this time slot was no problem at all.

I am essentially a lazy and self-centered person. I wouldn't feed a child older than a year outside of normal waking hours and I wouldn't play in the snow at 3 am unless truly desperate - but I couldn't be bothered to put up a fight over the parental bed either. I value my sleep too much.

Aw, of course, whoosh. We all just do what we think is best for your kids. Some need us more than others (and at different times of the day).

I hope I made it clear in the previous post that I would NOT just ignore my child, change the sheets and put the child back to bed if they were sick! I would be mortified. Luckily it has never happened - they always give up before I do

Undacovermutha, I think what this thread has taught me is that what you (and I do) ie patting, shushing, going in after 5 mins, 10 mins etc, is great when it works and works quickly and consistently, but many people find it does not work well enough for it to be worth the 'pain', and get really pissed off when people say 'it's as easy as x, y and z'.

See I have been listening

I think you're probably right neenz. I guess I'm just not hard-arsed enough. I have tried but after the 15th time of a week of pain and then going right back to the beginning all over again I have just given up.

When it comes down to it, although I like sleep I don't value it more than my DS's happiness. He's a really brave kid. He's had huge amounts of medical treatment and didn't make a fuss. And if he falls and smashes his lip open (which happens quite regularly) he really doesn't cry much at all. He's tough. So if he's crying, it means something and it's no less serious to me than it is during the day. He's nearly 3 too, so it's not just waaah-waah, it's 'mummy pleeeease, I don't want to be here on my own, pleeeease mummy, please'. I can't ignore that. I think I'd be a shit mother if I did.

Neenz - your HV is REALLY hardcore. And I thought I was tough (although DD has made herself sick twice during tantrums!).I really do believe in doing (almost) anything to get a goodnight sleep, but there is no way I could do that. I really do think (and it might be against the CC ethos - of which I don't know much) that as long as you don't give in (ie. take them into bed etc etc) there is no need to let them cry for any considerable length of time. I have always just gone in repeatedly, as soon as they got themselves REALLY worked up, calmed them down without picking them up (sshhhing, patting, singing, mobile etc), and then started again.

"But my HV once told me that kids will be sick during CC. I asked her what to do then and she said 'just ignore, change the sheets and put the child back to bed'"

That's where I went wrong then as that would be more than a step too far for me. Personally, I think that's callous.

Whooshspice, don't get so annoyed!

My DTs haven't always just cried for 5 mins, it has been an hour or two on the first night on the various times I did sleep training. But now on the rare times they do wake they go straight back to sleep.

You said in an earlier post that you do sleep training, then it goes wrong and you bring him into bed with you. I was just pointing out that maybe that is why it was going wrong.

IMO it is only because I have consistently not fed them/cuddled them/brought them into my bed that they now go back to sleep in five minutes.

As for him getting a nosebleed, that is very distressing and no of course I would not leave a child who had a nosebleed.

I am fortunate (yes I do accept I have been fortunate) not to have children who get themselves so worked up that they vomit etc. But my HV once told me that kids will be sick during CC. I asked her what to do then and she said 'just ignore, change the sheets and put the child back to bed' I said 'that is hardcore!' and thought even I wouldn't do that.

How funny undercovermutha - he is a very random eater (some days loads, some days virtually nothing). But other than that, he is an absolute joy during the day. He's funny and sweet and cuddly and kind and everyone loves him. He does have the very occasional tantrum but he's easily distracted.

Just as well really or I'd have put him out by the bins otherwise

whooshspicemonster - I truly feel for you - I would hate to be in that situation.

I only hope that your DS is a little angel for you during the day !

My DD is 3 also, and as I said has always been brilliant with sleeping and eating - but oh the drama and the tantrums. Its like being on a rollercoaster. If I wasn't getting a decent nights sleep, someone would probably end up locked under the stairs, and it would probably be me !

You are totally contradicting yourself:

'it doesn't work for all children' - great, good, we're agreed on that.

But then you go on to say: 'I was just pointing out that if you did keep doing it instead of taking him into your bed or giving him milk then perhaps you wouldn't need to do it over and over.'

I haven't tried it one night and then given up which is what that sentence seems to suggest. I've done it for nights on end, believe me. And eventually it has worked. But it only ever lasts a few months and then we're back to square one. But unlike your children, he doesn't cry for 5 minutes and then go to sleep.

It is usually 2 hours of solid crying before he falls asleep on the first night. Believe me, when you have disrupted your sleep as many times as I have to sleep train and it only works for a short period of time, eventually you decide to cut your losses and work with your child, rather than against them.

But that doesn't mean I don't dearly wish I didn't get disturbed every night. But, barring totally ignoring him every single time he cries in the night for ever, I can't see how that's going to happen.