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AIBU?

To have employed shock tactics with DS?

54 replies

RumbleMum · 24/07/2014 20:38

DS1 is 4.2 and we started potty training 14 months ago.

It's never been an easy journey, and we've gone backwards and forwards ever since - he'll be fine for weeks and months at a time then suddenly regress for no apparent reason.

DS starts school in September and right now he's barely getting anything in the toilet - the best we can hope for a lot of the time is a semi-accident and the rest in the toilet.

In the past, I've done the whole endless-positivity-and-star-charts-and-no-negative-comment and it simply doesn't work - there are no consequences so nothing changes. We've found the best combination is a sweet for using the loo and/or a star chart, combined with taking a favoured toy away for a day or two when things get bad - a carrot AND stick approach.

Right now NOTHING is working and it's getting worse. This evening I've lost it, thrown all his pants out, put his current star chart in the bin, sent the star chart reward (some highly desired Lego) back and said tomorrow he's wearing nappies and if he can't use the toilet then he can't go to school with his friends (which he's really excited about).

FWIW I try to make sure he has a safe and secure environment, knows he is loved and that it's unconditional. I don't think there is a medical problem as he can be dry and clean for several months, and this regression pre-dates any discussion about school so not related to that.

So AIBU to have resorted to shock tactics even though all the professional advice is against it? Feeling like a really, really crap Mum right now so please be a tiny bit gentle!

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MrsCumbersnatch · 24/07/2014 20:40

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

sarahquilt · 24/07/2014 20:43

Sounds like a good tactic to me OP.

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hiccupgirl · 24/07/2014 20:44

Tbh I don't blame you after that long and I'm not going to get all huffy about it. My DS faffed around and refused to go near the toilet for a good 6 months but thankfully did decide he didn't want nappies anymore at 3.

I would just think about what your fall back position is if it doesn't work and he's the same tomorrow.

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Nodoubledippingallowed · 24/07/2014 20:45

It sounds so hard, you have my sympathies. Can I ask though, if you don't think there are medical issues, what is causing this? Do you think he would choose to do this? I only ask because you have given a warning that assumes he is in control of the situation and can change it at will. Do you think he can? I am trying to potty train my son who is nearly 4 and has SN. I do understand your difficulties x

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FidelineAndBombazine · 24/07/2014 20:45

I think I'd have done something drastic too.

I certainly would have made him understand boys at school use the loo.

Why did you not just bin the nappies and keep the pants? Not that it matters, a drastic gesture of one sort or the other is probably all that was needed.

How did he react? Will you keep night time pull ups?

Flowers it's stressful.

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MrsWinnibago · 24/07/2014 20:46

I don't think it's sensible at all! More likely to make him anxious. He's 4. Many children don't fully "get it" until they're over 5.

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dexter73 · 24/07/2014 20:47

I agree with MrsWinnibago.

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JustinFletchersLoveBunny · 24/07/2014 20:51

This is actually kind of cruel.

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FidelineAndBombazine · 24/07/2014 20:51

Don't beat yourself up for what you've already done, make a plan.

You're not saying you lost your temper and shouted or similar are you?

Have you checked the school policy in detail? What's the worst case scenario?

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magoria · 24/07/2014 20:54

Aren't you going to stress him out and make him anxious with your tactics which will make things better not worse?

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RumbleMum · 24/07/2014 21:03

Thanks for all the responses, on both sides! I guess I am worried I've scarred him for life it's a bit cruel but I also worry the alternative is him being teased at school for constantly being smelly (this has already started to happen at pre-school and it's awful to see).

I should probably have pointed out I've no intention of forcing him into a nappy in the morning, though I'm determined he's not having his pants back yet - perhaps we go pants-free for a few days till things pick up then buy some new ones.

Nodoubledipping - I honestly don't know what's causing it, though I do feel he has control of it because he's always had patches of being totally reliable, usually for the right incentive. My Mum thinks it's downright stubbornness. I guess I worry it's more than that, but he certainly is otherwise extremely happy and content.

Fideline - no, I haven't shouted or lost my temper - it was all very matter of fact. I will make a plan with DH when he gets home about where we go from here (though any advice gratefully received!) The school is pretty good about it - understands that accidents happen sometimes and don't make a fuss. I don't think they'd take very kindly to constant accidents, though.

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Iggly · 24/07/2014 21:07

Yabu.

You've made a threat which you cannot uphold.

He's young. He won't be doing it on purpose.

Have you ruled out any water infections?

Have you tried ditching the star charts and trying to remind him? My 4 year old went through a phase of wetting - he was simply distracted and completely focussed on his playing. He'd be holding his willy and still deny he needed to go.

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MrsWinnibago · 24/07/2014 21:08

If the other DC at preschool are teasing him for being smelly then the blame lies squarely at the feet of the preschool teachers! Why isn't he changed??

I suspect many children who go through stages of being dry and then regressing are affected by outside factors, illness, weather, tiredness, little bit of worry over forthcoming change...it will settle down.

Start afresh tomorrow. Scrap the chart. I don't hold with them....I think most small DC simply don't have the foresight to benefit from earning rewards and most especially for a bodily function over which they're not yet fully in control of.

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FidelineAndBombazine · 24/07/2014 21:09

Well I'm a bit confused by the pant throwing because what I did the day after DDs 3rd birthday was throw out all the nappies and the potty, kept that training seats for the loos bought huge quantities of pants and new nappy buckets for the ones that got wet and encouraged her to take responsibility for changing after accudents (to an age appropriate extent) and went hardcore. Took less than a month.

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bauhausfan · 24/07/2014 21:13

I think girls are often easier to train than boys but I, too, got rid of all nappies after my two DSs' third birthdays and just said, 'Right that's it - it's potty/toilet now.' There was a couple of weeks of staying in to deal with the floods but after that it was ok (bar the odd accident).

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Nux · 24/07/2014 21:14

Not sure how helpful this is but I had a truly dreadful time potty training DD. She was basically choosing to wet or soil herself as a kind of control thing. She started potty training around 2 (nursery pushed for it, probably started too early with hindsight) but she was not dry for 2 years.

There were definitely no medical issues (e.g. she could nap and not wet which I was told by the HV meant she had physical control) but she did it on purpose, I think to 'punish' me - all exacerbated by the arrival of DS when she was 2.3. We tried everything - star charts and prizes, time outs (we were told it was just naughty behaviour so to treat it as such) but nothing helped. She finally decided to stop when I took her out of nursery. She was in 3 days a week which I continued after DS was born - I thought it would give her stability, continuity, friends etc and give me some time with DS to bond and then we had 4 days together - but she clearly resented being 'sent away' as she saw it Sad

She sorted herself out for the summer before she started school and I was so relieved - however when she started in Reception she started wetting again. She would wait until the end of the day and wet literally as I was collecting her. Again, she was sad and angry that she was being 'sent away' to school and I was at home with DS (I didn't go back to work after his arrival).

So, to get to the point - firstly, DDs Reception teacher and TA were AMAZING and helped her get over it - it took about the first term to get totally sorted but she has never looked back. They were hugely supportive, not judgemental and also none of her friends/classmates judged her or made her feel bad (a big fear of mine) although sometimes they were confused or surprised by it. None of them even remember it now. So EVEN if he is still doing this at school, it may not be as disastrous as you fear.

Secondly - I was desperately upset about the whole situation and found it hard to talk to other parents about - however once I did, I discovered that LOADS of parents were still struggling with dryness/accidents etc with their four-year-olds. So you aren't alone by any stretch of the imagination.

Thirdly - is it possible that there is an underlying issue that is upsetting your DS? I found it heartbreaking to realise that DD felt she was being rejected by me/the family - but recognising she felt like that and changing things to fix it was the best thing I could have done for her, however hard it was for me to accept my decisions had made her feel so unhappy Sad Sad Sad

Sorry for the essay. I feel your pain.

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bauhausfan · 24/07/2014 21:14

Oh and I did give mine an instant reward - a sweet, every time they went in the potty or loo.

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RumbleMum · 24/07/2014 21:14

Iggly - yes, I took a sample to the GP who said no urine infection. Reminding him seems to make him more resistant, somehow.

MrsWinnibago - preschool do change him pretty quickly I think, but not before the children he's playing with have caught a whiff (when it's a poo accident).

I worry that this has been going on such a long time and I can't see a link to the regressions such as illness, changes and so on that it won't settle down without him being shamed by the other children at school. But it's all food for thought, thank you, so I shall ponder on it ....

Fideline - we went cold turkey on the daytime nappies (he's still in a pull-up at night) right from the beginning. I just never got rid of them and they've been sitting in a cupboard waiting for DS2. I also got him to take help a bit with clearing up accidents but that doesn't seem to make any difference any more ....

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CorporateRockWhore · 24/07/2014 21:15

DD has a nightmare few weeks recently where she had accidents multiple times a day, basically because she didn't want to stop what she was doing and go to the loo, and because she hates being told she needs to do so!

I went for supportive, upbeat, doesn't matter...which made it worse. So I told her it wasn't ok to muck about until you pee all over the floor, showed that I was annoyed and said if it continued we might have to think about nappies again. Then she got it.

I don't really get all of the 'never show you mind just laugh it off and say haha better luck next time' advice. How are they meant to learn then that it's not the right way to behave?

not talking about medical issues, etc. Just stubborn 4 year olds!

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Purplepoodle · 24/07/2014 21:16

I would pop to the doctors with him, perhaps take a urine sample to get tested. Found this sheet and thought it had some good tips

www.sch.edu.au/health/factsheets/joint/?daytime_wetting.htm

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Iggly · 24/07/2014 21:18

I don't remind ds, I just either chivvy him along or keep saying go to the toilet

He's quite stubborn!

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FidelineAndBombazine · 24/07/2014 21:20

So it is just a case of continuing accidents in pants?

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ThatWasNice · 24/07/2014 21:22

We shouted at DS2 and 'dramatically' threw his nappies out when he was nearly 3 and a half. I was frustrated with him and convinced he was just being awkward. Shock.

It worked a treat and he never had another accident at all. I don't think it was mean of me either as he was happier when he was using the toilet properly. He had just got into a bad habit. Obviously, I wouldn't have done it if I thought there was a medical reason. Otherwise he was a well behaved boy so I think the shouting was quite effective.

I had previously tried all the nice positive methods and they hadn't worked. I definitely don't regret doing it.

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RumbleMum · 24/07/2014 21:22

Nux - thank you, that is terribly reassuring to hear. I don't think that there is an underlying issue though of course I could be missing something. He seems to be happy at preschool and nursery and very content and happy at home. DS2 was born in the middle of all of this but as far as I can tell it doesn't seem to be related as the issues started before my pregnancy and the patterns are all the same both before and afterwards. DS2 has also been dream baby and doesn't seem to have impacted on DS1's happy life too much so I've been able to give DS1 a lot more attention than I anticipated - we've had no major problems with behaviour or jealousy.

bauhausfan - I'm back to doing that and it works for a few days, then it feels like the stubbornness overrides the desire even for a sweet, though perhaps I'm misreading it!


Purplepoodle - he's been tested for an infection and it came out clear. Will read that link though, thank you.

Fideline - yes, accidents in pants. I should take shares out in Napisan as I'm sure I'm boosting their sales so much.

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Thisismyfirsttime · 24/07/2014 21:24

Have you asked him why? What does he say?
I only ask because I work with a continence nurse who has told me quite a bit about why she sees children without SN (who we usually see but she sees other children in her clinic) and various urine infections/ bladder/ bowel issues that I had no clue about. Do you feel that speaking to your GP could be an option?

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