Part year (term time) working in the Civil Service

[Turquoisetamborine]

I just need a rant. I have a son who is now six. When he was four and about to start school, I applied to increase my working hours during term time so I could be off (unpaid) for six weeks of the school holidays. This has been available in the Civil Service for years.

I was turned down on the grounds that the office couldn't cope with anyone else being off during the school holidays. There are three other part year workers in the office, around 40 people work there in total. The three people who already have the right to work term time have children who are 19, 23 & 26. Therefore no need for childcare during the school holidays.

One of them has changed the weeks she is off to non-school holiday weeks. The other two have the full 13 weeks school holiday plus their other annual leave. They have the full six weeks summer break then tag a week annual leave onto either side of it. My boss would not challenge them to ask if they would give it up as it was now needed by staff who had small children.

My colleague who also could do with this privilege will pay £1800 which is more than she earns for childcare over the six weeks break. I luckily have family to help but would have just liked it so I could spend time with my son.

Every summer I can barely look at these women who had this privilege all the years their children were growing up. Because they take up so much of the leave allowance for the holidays, none of the four of us who have school age children can get a full week off so we just have the odd day here and there.

So AIBU to tell them when they "break up" tomorrow that I hope they choke on their celebratory drinks that I won't be attending tomorrow?

[ICanSeeTheSun]

Why not raise it with management about the AL.

It's not fair that you never get any proper time off

[bearfrills]

YANBU to feel resentful, it is shite that they don't review the term time working after so many years. DH also works in the civil service, year round, and his department is at its maximum limit for term time workers. As a result he can't get a full week of annual leave in the six week holidays (which have been fully booked since September) just odd days here and there. He looked at booking a week during next years six week holidays and it's all already gone. He can get three days and even then not three days in a row. A lot of the term time workers children are now in their late teens and no longer in childcare.

[BackforGood]

Well of course YABU to do that.

Have you ever thought to have a pleasant, friendly chat with any of them. You know, chatted about how nice it must be when your dc have all left school and you no longer need to book holidays in the school holiday time, and how much cheaper that must be. Or about how lovely it must be now they no longer need to be at home for their dc while the schools are off. Do they know that other people are being turned down for the same privilege they enjoyed, because they are still having the time off in the Summer holidays even though they would seemingly not need it anymore? Or are you just ranting at them?

[Judgypants73]

What are the T&Cs of term time, is it to suit parents of children, over 18s wouldn't be classed as children so it's worth checking out.

[Turquoisetamborine]

I have raised it with management Ican she said she wouldn't challenge them as it is written into their contracts. I spoke to the union who sadly shook his head and said nothing could be done.

Sorry for your DH bearfrills. But it makes me feel a little better that it's not just my office.

They should scrap it all together so everyone has a fair chance of getting the holidays.

[MintyChops]

That's really shit, YANBU, it's ridiculous that they still get to do that when they don't need it and other people do. Is there anyone else you can raise it with?

[Turquoisetamborine]

Backforgood I approached two of them when I made the application and they both said they didn't want to give it up although they realised I needed it. One as she looked forward to a long summer with her dog and the other liked to holiday with a sister who was a teacher.

[Turquoisetamborine]

Judgy other places like the NHS have a limit on it like when your children turn 16 or something you automatically lose it but that's not the same for us. It's just a continuous contract which only the employee can give up.

[Judgypants73]

You've been turned down because the office can't cope with anyone else been off but one of them has changed her weeks to non term time, could you request those weeks? What about parental leave?

[rootypig]

That's CRAZY, it's a fantastic policy for working parents, but surely the leave should be linked to having school age children.

Those women are bloody awful not to give it up for you

I would write a strongly worded letter to a much higher level than your boss, pointing out how the policy is being administered and making a complaint.

[Viviennemary]

This is absolutely unfair and totally unacceptable and something the union should be taking up. It looks as if the system was at fault at the time for allowing the change to be permanent unless the women themselves choose to give it up. Could you take out a grievance procedure.

[HomeIsWhereTheHeartIs]

In my office people with older children are unable to give up their part-year (even if they want to) because of a ban on increasing working hours.
Perhaps this is why management cannot force the issue.

[tinkerbellvspredator]

There probably isn't anything that can be done as it has been written into contracts however I'm sure in your department there will be some sort of feedback system for communicating with the senior management / chief executive. I would raise it with them.

Although it may get turned down for school holidays times due to this staffing issue, have you tried applying for parental leave.

[SignYourName]

Would any of the w

[SignYourName]

Whoops...bloody phone.

Would any of the women consider giving up a week (eg two of them giving up a week each consecutively so you could get a fortnight off) and taking it in lieu during term-time?

[secretsquirrels]

What a shame.
I was one of those who benefited from a term time and part time contract in the civil service.
It was magic.
I left when DC were 11 and 9 but had always assumed it would have ended when they finished school.

[emsyj]

YANBU. They are selfish and should not be allowed to do this, although I understand how the ill thought through HR process behind the permanent contract change has led to this problem. I have joined the civil service specifically to take advantage of term time only working but would absolutely not expect to retain this privilege once my children are grown up.

[Ilovenicesoap]

This is terrible.
My DC are older and I deliberately don't book holidays at half term etc as I know others need it more than me.
I have my summer holidays before schools break up and after they have gone back.

All flexible working contracts should be reviewed regularly.

[scattaboy]

Ok YABU about the plan of action but not about being annoyed.I am surprised they are still able to get it as not sure about all areas of civil service but where I am you have to renew your application each year and it goes through HR rather than just line management.
Have you spoken to your union?They may be able to advise more/better?

[wanttosinglikemarycoughlan]

It is crap
My work department used to let people do this and stopped because they refused to give it up once it was written into contract
They had women with children age 20+ still working term time
It spoiled it for everyone because they will not give out these contracts anymore
They should be for a limited number of years, perhaps workers should have to reapply after 5 years
No good to you but I just wanted to join in with a rant

[puntasticusername]

"Looks forward to taking a long holiday with her dog".

Now I've heard it all.

My sympathies, OP, even by civil service management standards that's really shit. Can't think of much else to suggest but could you try approaching anyone at PCS central rather than your (from the sound of it) slightly gutless local rep?

[ICanSeeTheSun]

The trouble is, is that it is written into the contract and management can not by law break a contract.

Also with the new laws that say anyone can apply for flexible working then these women are not doing anything wrong.

I know it is frustrating, but management hands are tied

[UncleT]

And that's the stupid thing - agreements like this should only ever be for fixed periods and subject to regular, clearly-defined review. No way should it become contractual. The business can change too much and too quickly for that ever to be in the employer's interests. Things like this have to be properly considered, not dished out like smarties with no strings, to come back and haunt the business a decade or more later.

[GhoulWithADragonTattoo]

The bit I would definitely want to resolve is the fact that you cannot get a week or two together during the summer holidays. That is totally unfair. It's a bit difficult to say the women on term time contracts should work longer hours though. May be it would be better to suggest that they move their leave so it's out of term time as one of your colleagues has done. I'd happily have the whole of June and first half of July off instead of the school summer hols in their shoes.