to think if the Jewish Council and the FA are upset by Spurs fans yelling "yid army"

(310 Posts)
kim147 Tue 17-Sep-13 18:44:32

Then Cameron should back off- He says it's not being used as a hate word and the fans claim they are reclaiming it.

The FA and the Jewish council of Deputies think it's offensive.

www.theguardian.com/politics/2013/sep/17/david-cameron-yids-chants-spurs

Of course, Cameron comes from that privileged class who rarely get called offensive terms (apart from references to Eton)

CocacolaMum Tue 17-Sep-13 18:48:17

I am pretty sure Cameron gets called offensive terms ALL the time..

YouTheCat Tue 17-Sep-13 18:48:50

All sounds pretty bloody offensive to me.

specialsubject Tue 17-Sep-13 18:56:24

ah, football fans. Welcome to the fifties.

NOWHERE else would this be acceptable, nor would the banana throwing that goes on.

Cameron is talking out of the wrong orifice as normal.

TheLightPassenger Tue 17-Sep-13 19:00:04

Given the context - the Guardian links to an earlier article re:context of anti-semitic insults by other teams' supporters - I (possibly foolishly) believe the reclamation argument. But even if it is well meant, the supporters should abide by the views of the FA and Jewish Council.

Alisvolatpropiis Tue 17-Sep-13 19:21:38

Slightly strange stance from Cameron (who no doubt has been called far worse than merely posh in his lifetime).

I'm 24 and have never known it to be acceptable to call a Jewish person/ refer to Jewish people as Yids. I think I was at university before I heard it used. And yes, that was by a general dickhead who also happened to be a football fan.

Oblomov Tue 17-Sep-13 19:30:33

Do you know the history of why the Spurs fan shout yids?
They are proud of their jewish connections. And it is not considered a jibe or a taunt. It is said with pride.

The difference is here is that the supporters are referring to themselves and their team rather than aiming the comments at another team.

Not defending it btw, I'm an Arsenal supporter who just grew up hearing this. But just wanted to clarify the difference between that and the chucking bananas stuff.

eretrew Tue 17-Sep-13 19:36:05

The chant of Yid Army was used by the supporters when Spurs received a lot of anti semitic abuse (still do from Chelsea, West Ham and Arsenal fans) and as such has become entwined into being a Tottenham supporter.

mayorquimby Tue 17-Sep-13 19:40:20

Who thinks banana throwing still happens in English football?

mayorquimby Tue 17-Sep-13 19:40:55

And if it does that anyone thinks it's acceptable?

digerd Tue 17-Sep-13 19:47:20

The old fashioned " Upper Class Twit" comes to mind. hmm

Oblomov Tue 17-Sep-13 21:10:56

I was at Spurs last month.
" Come on you Spurs"
"Yids. Yids"
I shouted and shouted.
Felt great.

I think this is all PC nonsense , because people haven't got anything better to talk about.

Dh has been a Spurs fan for over 30 years and thinks this is all nonsense.

Oblomov Tue 17-Sep-13 21:11:33

I was at Spurs last month.
" Come on you Spurs"
"Yids. Yids"
I shouted and shouted.
Felt great.

I think this is all PC nonsense , because people haven't got anything better to talk about.

Dh has been a Spurs fan for over 30 years and thinks this is all nonsense.

HavantGuard Tue 17-Sep-13 21:21:56

I've read David Baddiel writing on this. He's a cock, but he's right.

From 1:50 to 3:15

https://audioboo.fm/boos/1046158-spurs-fans-y-word-chants-are-offensive-and-need-to-stop-david-baddiel#t=1m39s

Chunderella Tue 17-Sep-13 21:23:45

I would've thought they'd do better to tackle opposition fans making hissing gas chamber noises at Spurs first.

kim147 Tue 17-Sep-13 21:25:58

oblomov

Are you Jewish?

blueemerald Tue 17-Sep-13 21:29:31

Well said Chunderella. The focus is in totally the wrong place. I'm Jewish and I know which offends me more.

Oblomov Tue 17-Sep-13 21:40:31

No Kim I'm not.
But alot of the fellow spurs supporters that dh knows are. And they don't find it offensive.
Apparently the spurs season ticket holders will be asked.
Dh and I predict that 90 + % will say that they do not consider it offensive.

kim147 Tue 17-Sep-13 21:45:44

It's interesting how within the same community, some people find a term offensive and some don't find it offensive.

If 90% don't find it offensive, but 10% of the supporters do - should those who don't find it offensive keep chanting it - knowing that 10% of the Jewish fans do find it offensive.

TheRunawayTrain Tue 17-Sep-13 22:37:40

As a Jew, I don't find it particularly offensive as it's sung in support. I've experience anti-semitism (which I thought was rare compared to many other types of hatred nowadays, and I think still is- and being called a yid has featured in none of those situations) and I think this is a turning ba k the insult- they are proud of it and aren't using it insultingly, so I think it's fine. As a Spurs fan, I would have sang it along with the rest, but haven't gone to a match in years, so no chance"

olgaga Tue 17-Sep-13 23:13:23

Spurs fans call themselves "Yids" and "Yid Army" for a reason. THFC traditionally had strong links to the Jewish Community in North London (including Stamford Hill/Hackney/East End and now further afield to Golders Green, Finchley etc).

As a result, Spurs fans have been subjected to Anti-Semitic abuse for decades - mainly hissing to replicate the noise of the gas chamber. More recently this charming ditty is regularly sung by opposing team's fans (notably West Ham, Chelsea, Arsenal and Liverpool). It's sung to the tune of "Spurs are on their way to Wembley":

Spurs are on their way to Auschwitz
Hitler's gonna gas them again...

The Spurs Chairman is Jewish - Daniel Levy. Many of the THFC Supporters Trust members are Jewish. Many of the ordinary supporters who attend the matches are Jewish. I was listening to the THFCST spokesman Dan Wynne on R5 Live just this evening. He is Jewish.

How interesting that David Baddiel and Daniel Finkelstein, who find the Spurs fans' chants so offensive, have nothing to say about supporters of their own club (Chelsea) chanting Anti-Semitic abuse.

It is accepted by the Jewish Council that banning Spurs supporters from using "Yid" to describe themselves will have no effect on stopping the Anti-Semitic abuse directed at Spurs supporters.

Cameron was right (and I never thought I'd ever say that) when he said:

"There's a difference between Spurs fans self-describing themselves as Yids and someone calling someone a Yid as an insult," he told the Jewish Chronicle. "You have to be motivated by hate. Hate speech should be prosecuted — but only when it's motivated by hate."

That is also the basis of the recent statement by the Metropolitan Police which stated there would be no grounds on which to take action against Spurs Supporters for their Yid chants.

Just wanted to clarify. We are Tottenham, and we'll sing what we want.

meditrina Tue 17-Sep-13 23:18:23

Good post, Olgaga.

Oblomov Wed 18-Sep-13 07:20:56

Agree.
Olgaga has put it, perfectly.

Oblomov Wed 18-Sep-13 07:46:46

We wonder what,

'David Baddiel thinks of his fellow Chelsea supporters chanting anti-semitic abuse:

Spurs are on their way to Auschwitz
Hitler's gonna gas them again...

And, the hissing of the gas chambers.'

Baddiel can't seem to accept that the intent that the Spurs fans say it ( pride) is totally different to the intent that the Chelsea/Arsenal/ etc fans say it - their intent is insulting Anti-Semitic abuse.

David Baddiel can't seem to see the difference. hmm

Join the discussion

Join the discussion

Registering is free, easy, and means you can join in the discussion, get discounts, win prizes and lots more.

Register now