To ignore neighbour's letter through my door....

(58 Posts)
HarryandLouLou Wed 07-Aug-13 12:34:19

.....that asks all local residents to object to minor travellers site planning application?

I know gypsies and travellers often get bad press, but I had a look at the planning application on the council website and it's for 2 caravans, 1 static and 1 to be lived in. Whoever applied must own the land as its a request for the land to be used as a place of residence.

The neighbour (who I'm not sure of their identity) is claiming that should this proceed it will "blight our homes and reduce sale prices" etc etc.

From a birds eye view, our street and cul de sac will be their nearest neighbours, but there is no access between the site and our homes.

Aibu or naive?

MrsWolowitz Thu 08-Aug-13 08:20:10

I think you are being a little naive.

You do sound very nice though.

HarryandLouLou Thu 08-Aug-13 08:11:02

Thanks for all the replies.

I've checked the application again, and it states "one gypsy family."

I have no concerns if this is the case but not so sure if it turns out to be a larger site in time.

However, as KatieHalfPrice says, it's not so simple to dispute on grounds that are not of a planning nature.

I'll see how things go in due course.

I would object too...from personal experience

JessieMcJessie Thu 08-Aug-13 07:02:52

How do you know it is for travellers? Farm near me uses statics for seasonal workers.

Mimishimi Thu 08-Aug-13 03:14:24

My parents applied to live in a van for up to a year or so whilst they saved up to build a house on a block of land they purchased when we were little. As it is, they sold that land to buy an established house further away. Why does it bother people if others live in a van ? I can completely understand being bothered by overcrowding and mess but I really don't see what the actual issue with just a van is. Lots of homeowners who are non-travellers have messy front yards with scrap cars and the like.

KatieHalfPrice Thu 08-Aug-13 02:32:22

I have extensive experience of planning applications for a traveller sites. Planning applications can only be turned down on planning grounds. I've known sites get approved with upwards of 500 local objections because 'not in my back yard' is not a reason to decline planning.

MidniteScribbler Thu 08-Aug-13 02:18:52

I don't have any experience with travellers so can't comment on them, but I wouldn't like caravans on a vacant block near me, unless they were using it temporarily and a permanent home was being built within a certain time frame.

MinionDave Wed 07-Aug-13 19:24:08

All travellers are different. There are some that come and live in a carpark near my work once a year and cause all kind of havoc, breaking car windows, thieving from the nearby nursery and leaving the place like a rubbish tip.

On the other hand, there is a traveller site in my town and they seem really nice. Their kids go to my kids school, and they don't cause any problems at all.

You just can't tar them all with the same brush.

When you respond to planning applications, you need to use "planning" reasons. Things like "not within the permitted development area on the village plan", "out of keeping with the conservation area" or "insufficient mains water and sewerage to serve the dwellings". Obviously you need to know local information to be able to come up with planning reasons to support or oppose the plans and the local development plans may well have a section on the provision of sites for travellers. However I very much doubt whether an objection "we don't like these sort of people, you know what they are like, it starts off with 2 caravans and next thing you know there are 10 with feral children and dogs" would actually have any influence, and rightly so.

So you need to think both about whether you want to respond and on what grounds. How would you feel if they put two small houses there? Is this really any different?

DENMAN03 Wed 07-Aug-13 18:46:49

My sister lived next door to a site that had only one static caravan. It was frequently visited by up to 10 others on a regular basis. They would leave huge amounts of rubbish and the kids would be rude and aggressive if you tried to drive past them on the lane. One night there was a massive fight between them and another gang of travellers! Im not hysterical over travellers but they don't really do themselves any favours. If they would just clean up after themselves it would go a long way to making me feel nicer towards them. Just my experience. Not saying every traveller behaves in this way, although have yet to see any that don't.

ElectricSoftParade Wed 07-Aug-13 18:36:56

Obviously it is up to you if you wish to object although I would be warey of any unsigned letters.

I live near a largeish traveller site and have done for about 9 years. In all that time I haven't had any problems with any of the travellers either around the area or at school.

Other folk claim to have had problems and attributed them to the travellers but I haven't. Some of the women are not very friendly (I think preferring to stick together, particulary at school) which is fair enough. Others are though.

ilovesooty Wed 07-Aug-13 18:22:09

That's exactly the same sort of application friends of mine put in prior to planning permission for a house. I'd also bin something that was delivered to me unsigned.

TallyGrenshall Wed 07-Aug-13 17:56:19

It's entirely up to you if you want to object or not.

My village has a fairly large site and we are nit a high crime area. When I was growing up, most of the crime committed was by 3 families on my estate not the travellers. A couple of my friends bought some land in a different village and applied for 2 caravans 10 years ago. Theres still only 2 (static) caravens there. They don't let any of their friends or family pull up on their land, they just wanted somewhere pernanent for them.

Oblomov Wed 07-Aug-13 17:36:19

I too think the Op is very naieve. You will live to regret this. I swear.

Whothefuckfarted Wed 07-Aug-13 17:19:48

I'd listen to Gollygosh123

somewheresomehow Wed 07-Aug-13 16:59:49

once planning permission is granted i think you wont have a leg to stand on if they decide to get more caravans on the site at a later date
If the travelers didn't go around the area they pitch up in nicking everything that aint nailed down and creating tons and tons of mess and crap and causing trouble they might be tolerated a bit more

WooWooSister Wed 07-Aug-13 15:17:21

Ooh two traveller goading threads on the one day hmm
At the risk of repeating myself, I've worked with travelling communities for over a decade, and they are the same as any other community - there are good and bad in every community. Some of them have dogs but some of them don't hmm . Most of them pay council tax. If they are from the fairground, most of them also pay VAT, tax, etc, as they are small businesses.

The naked bigotry against travellers has escalated so much in recent years that bullying of traveller children in schools in the UK has almost returned to 1960s levels. sad

As someone said upthread there are also lots of different types of travellers. If you read the planning application it might shed light on which type have submitted the application (because it is one of the few (if not the only ) applications where you have to specify your race/ethnic origin/minority group.

You might also find that it isn't travellers. Lots of people who own land in the country apply for permission for a caravan first then apply for planning permisison for a house a few years later.

As for the fact that 2 will become 10, it will only do so if they apply to change a condition of planning. If the planning hasn't changed to allow more caravans to be sited there and more caravans move on then the Council can apply for the others to be removed.

frogwatcher42 Wed 07-Aug-13 14:55:23

It is possible that it is a permanent resident wanting to get planning permission for a new house on green field farming land, but has to get this first as the house wouldn't get permission. Once they have lived in the caravan for a few years they are more likely to get permission for a house.

Or the caravans are for seasonal farm workers?

Two caravans (one of which is static) is not your average travellers site is it? Therefore if my idea above isn't the case, there is the possibility that it becomes a larger site over time and rightly or wrongly, that would no doubt impact on house prices.

Pootles2010 Wed 07-Aug-13 14:45:52

Can definitely also see both sides - travellers, as with all folk, can be decent, or can be awful. I think part of the problem is as they tend to be transient they can be difficult to pin down if they do cause trouble, iyswim?

So locals end up not trusting them, and visa versa, which only aggravates matters. So people end up not knowing any travellers personally, and only notice the trouble makers, and so they end up projecting that to the whole community.

MairyHoles Wed 07-Aug-13 14:30:32

I can see both sides really. My former neighbour asked me to object to a planned traveller site next to our rural properties. I didn't want to, as my family were travellers 2 generations ago and I don't think everone can be tarred with the same stick. He pointed out that our houses would be robbed, farm machinery stolen etc. In the end I didn't object as I felt his reasons for wanting to object didn't sit well with me and weren't a concern to me. However, thinking on it, I would have been concerned about the amount of traffic on the narrow single track road where you have to reverse back if you encounter a tractor as a result of 20 more families. It is also a designated cycle route and home to about 4 protected species. There is no mains water or sewage serving our properties and they had not mentioned installing a septic tank. If my neighbour had brought these up I may have supported his objection but as it was I left it. In the end it was rejected anyway. I admit I was also concerned about how they would enforce the amount of caravans there, if more DID appear it can take years to have them removed and I certainly would not have wanted 70 caravans on the small strip of land next door.

Mogz Wed 07-Aug-13 14:07:32

At the other end of our village is a planned traveller's site, it is only small (maybe 20 dwellings), self contained and is well kept, honestly the messiest and noisiest part about it is the pony they keep tethered on the grass by the road. And he is super cute and loves cuddles so I say live and let live.

whois Wed 07-Aug-13 13:46:21

I think you are being naive. Those that get 'hysterical' often have had direct experience with travellers.

angelos02 Wed 07-Aug-13 13:43:17

few weeks. Not 2 weeks.

ouryve Wed 07-Aug-13 13:43:11

How do you know the caravans are for travellers, anyhow? They might be intended as somewhere for seasonal workers or guests to stay. The fact that one of the caravans is static doesn't say travellers, to me.

angelos02 Wed 07-Aug-13 13:41:51

YY to everything broken sunglasses said.

Years ago, some travellers moved in near to where I used to live. They were there for about a month. I'd lived there 2 years before, never been burgled. In the 2 weeks the travellers were there, we were burgled twice. Once they'd left, not broken into again. Make of that what you will.

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