to think at last something has exposed this scandal

(275 Posts)
Crumbledwalnuts Tue 06-Aug-13 04:05:34
Bearandcub Tue 06-Aug-13 04:27:58

YANBU

AmandaCooper Tue 06-Aug-13 07:03:38

Talented business people being paid market rate salaries? Where's the scam in that?

Tee2072 Tue 06-Aug-13 07:19:42

The scam is...what exactly? People at high levels get paid high salaries, no matter the business. That's life.

My objection is that there is no transparency or any clear indication that x% of your donation goes towards 'admin costs' or the fact that govt money (your taxes) goes to staff who have less accountability.

There is no qualm in paying the staff a market rate, but with a non profit objective I don't quite understand how performance is measured.

DontmindifIdo Tue 06-Aug-13 07:22:47

Another asking what the scam is? For the job they do, that would be considered a v low package in the commercial sector, most will have taken at least a 50% pay cut to work for a charity.

Frenchvanilla Tue 06-Aug-13 07:26:43

Monitoring & evaluation, fleshwound

AngryGnome Tue 06-Aug-13 07:27:20

Can't see how it is a scam - senior roles requiring a high level of experience and sector knowledge will always, and should always, be appropriately rewarded. I'm also not clear as to why you can't measure performance in a not-for-profit sector. There are many ways to measure performance without looking at profit levels - pretty much all public sector roles have their performance measured in terms of their working standards, quality etc - no profit measuring involved.

MrsKwazii Tue 06-Aug-13 07:28:03

Are people who work for charities meant to be paid peanuts? Many Chief Execs and similar are running multimillion pound charities, salaries need to reflect that if you want someone of the right calibre to fill the post.

The same can also be said of the public sector btw. Want important services that cost millions to run and have a profound effect on people's lives run properly? Pay accordingly.

Lazyjaney Tue 06-Aug-13 07:28:08

Charities are not audited like companies, and the amounts that actually get to the supposed Recipients are sometimes ludicrously rather small given what the chiefs pay themselves - I agree it's a scandal waiting to break.

Onetwothreeoops Tue 06-Aug-13 07:30:13

It does sound like there needs to be more clarity. A 12% pay rise since 2010 when revenue has fallen doesn't sound right to me. Also am I reading it right that when we donate money to charity up to 7% goes to management of the charity and 4% goes to fund raising?

Lollydaydream Tue 06-Aug-13 07:30:55

If you want to know about admin costs of any charity look at their accounts; they separate out spend on charitable objectives and on running costs. You can see executive pay in the notes to the accounts: the charity commission website even gives you standardized graphs so you can see the split at a glance. The information is out there, it doesn't need to be 'exposed' and the fact the charity commission had raised concerns shows that it is monitored. There is no widespread scandal.

Tee2072 Tue 06-Aug-13 07:30:56

It's hardly a scandal waiting to break if most of us seem aware of it and find nothing wrong with it, now is it?

Where's the scandal?!?!

Shock! Horror! Highly placed person gets appropriate salary!!! Film at 11!!!!

The scandal is private CEOs who destroyed our economy and still get their salaries despite not making targets. That's the scandal no one seems to want to talk about.

Lollydaydream Tue 06-Aug-13 07:36:03

Charities are audited.

But by whom? Yes, just because it is a charity doesn't mean work for peanuts, but be upfront about the % of donation that goes to the cause.

BeckAndCall Tue 06-Aug-13 07:40:44

Of course charities are audited just like companies.

They are registered with the charity commission which has very strict reporting requirements and accounts and disclosures are required to be prepared in accordance with the Charities SORP, which in my experience, is at least as onerous as companies accounts disclosure requirements.

And in any case, auditing has nothing do with how much the staff are paid. For both charities and companies this has to be disclosed, but the audit has no role in setting any of the rates.

razmataz Tue 06-Aug-13 07:41:41

I don't have an issue per se with senior management being paid appropriate wages, but I do have an issue with the fact that when I worked in the charity sector, my pay was about 30% higher for a job that actually involved a lot less work and responsibility than either of the jobs I did before and afterwards - in the commercial sector.

Even now, having been promoted to manager level, my wage is lower than it was at coordinator level at the charity. Not that I think charities should be stingy, but they certainly don't have as keen an eye on the bottom line.

Lollydaydream Tue 06-Aug-13 07:43:01

Charities are audited by qualified accountants adhering to charity commission regulations and often companies house requirements too. The bug charities would use auditors from the big accountants firms who have their in specialist charity teams. The accounts show what they spend on charitable objectives.

Mimishimi Tue 06-Aug-13 07:49:08

YANBU. I simply detest it when the executives of these companies (and that is what they are) complain or justify that if they were working in the private sector, they would be paid a lot more for the level of the position they hold. When the truth is that many of them couldn't achieve that level of job in the private sector anyway. Had close experience of this with the husband of a friend of my parents.

For this reason, I am very picky about the charities I choose to donate to.

But where exactly is the accountability? The charities commission has regularly been found wanting.

It is a bit like the MPs with the expenses scandal saying that they were just playing by the rules and doing nothing wrong.

Lazyjaney Tue 06-Aug-13 07:55:26

Of course charities are audited just like companies

Bullshit.

Lollydaydream Tue 06-Aug-13 07:57:15

But where exactly is the accountability? The charities commission has regularly been found wanting.
So you'd like the Charity Commission to show/ use more teeth? That would good, though it does seem a bit churlish to complain at the moment when they have raised this as an issue. Or do you have another solution?

Lazyjaney Tue 06-Aug-13 07:58:46

Charities have been vigorously resisting being made to be as transparent as companies for years, but there has been a huge growth in charities in the last decade or so precisely because of the obcsuration of their financial affairs.

Lollydaydream Tue 06-Aug-13 07:59:15

Can you tell me why you don't think charities are audited rather than shouting bullshit.

TheAccidentalExhibitionist Tue 06-Aug-13 08:00:16

It's worth looking at the audited accounts and Trustee report on the Charity commission website. I have more issues with how much is spent on marketing.
The bigger the charity the higher their non donatable costs will be.

I try and support smaller, local charities where my money makes more of a difference and won't go on sales phone calls and wages.

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