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AIBU?

To want us all to be treated like human beings while we are in labour

72 replies

Itchywoolyjumper · 30/07/2013 20:53

Some of you might remember the internal examination thread which ended up with so many women telling the stories of the poor experiences at the hands of health care professionals during their pregnancies, labours and in the post natal period.
Many women spoke of lack of consent, poor communication and lack of respect from those who they should have been able to trust in their most vulnerable hours.
One poster spoke of being held down to be stitched because the pain relief had not yet taken hold and she was writhing in pain, while an other described being made to feel like "the dead meat around the foetus".
Its 2013, these and all the stories like them on the original thread should have been consigned to the history books long ago but instead we are being made to live them.

In response to this some of us are trying to start a campaign to bring this type of treatment to an end.
We have three broad aims:

  1. to help empower and support women making complaints against HCPs involved in their obstetric care.

  2. to help educate HCPs to examine their practice and improve their treatment of pregnant, labouring and post natal women.

  3. to lobby to bring about legislation to protect women against obstetric violence.

    Some amazing posters have started a website from where we hope to make a start on these aims, you can join us at:

    maternity-rights.webs.com/
OP posts:
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confuddledDOTcom · 30/07/2013 20:57

link Smile

Please do come and join, we want to hear your stories and get your support for building the campaign and the website.

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Whothefuckfarted · 30/07/2013 22:40

Is there any midwives out there (or anyone for that matter) who can tell me what this doctor may have done to me?

My first sign of labour was my waters breaking. Took a few hours for contractions to start. I had 3 internal 'checks' during my labour. One when I first arrived at hospital to be told I was at 3cm and would be able to stay in rather than sent home. Lovely midwife who calmed me right down.

The second was done at 5cm again no problem, bit uncomfortable but that was it.

The third however after reading all this... I'm not sure what it was. If anyone has any idea what was done to me I'd love a heads up.. thinking about it now I thought it was just a lot more painful because I was fully dilated.. but I'm now wondering what the heck he was doing up there.

I'd been in labour for 21 hours, the midwife called in a male (doctor?) I'd had a LOT of gas and air and was very sleepy due to a shot of pethidine about 5hrs previous. (they'd asked me to move from birth pool to bed as they wanted to give me hormones via drip to speed me up, said pethidine would help as it would mean stronger and more painful contractions)

Anyway I was under the impression that he was checking I was at 10cm so I could start pushing.. It REALLY hurt, I just asked my DH about it and what I said. He says that I DID ask the doctor to stop and he didn't stop. He says he was elbow deep in me. I remember trying to move away. Impossible. Once he had done I do remember him saying 'get rid of that gas and air now' then turned to the midwife and said 'she can push now'.

I don't feel violated (or didn't till now!) I actually loved my birth experience to be fair, I pushed baby out in 40 mins after that. So anyone any idea what he was doing?

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IneedAyoniNickname · 30/07/2013 23:46

What a fab idea, and yadnbu. It's one of the reasons I want to be a midwife, to stop people having these experiences. Will pop over to look at the site now.

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ICBINEG · 31/07/2013 09:47

Is it okay to leave someone in screaming-mind-lost agony for over an hour while you wait to see what happens next:

A) During labour?
B) During any other kind of medical procedure / surgery?

Hint: the answer is NO in both cases.

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JamieandtheMagicTorch · 31/07/2013 09:50

My first thought is that you were mid-contrction when he examine you. But I'm not a midwife.

It make me emotional to hear these stories

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JamieandtheMagicTorch · 31/07/2013 09:51

And thankyou you great women. I will get over there later

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Snuppeline · 31/07/2013 11:01

I had a long labour and found the internal examinations very painful. Am 37 weeks today and am planning to ask the midwifes to not check me if they really do not have to when I go into labour next.

I did not have a degrading experience as such but I did find that I was not given full disclosure of all information which later turned out to be relevant. I came into hospital at 3 cm dialated, progressed to 5 or 6 cm and then stalled. Midwife said she was going to break my waters to speed things up. She did not ask if I wanted this nor did she say that this would mean that I would be on a 24 hour count-down after that. Breaking waters did little. Baby was fine, however, since the count-down had begun they decided to introduce further interventions making my labour a lot more medicalised than I had wanted. They used the fact that my waters had been broken and that therefore baby needed to come out to prevent infection as the reasoning behind the escalations. I wanted a safe baby and didn't feel like I could argue against that. But I did feel tricked!

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Cookethenook · 31/07/2013 11:33

I'm in!

I gave birth to DS2 8 weeks ago and my midwife didn't believe i was in labour until i was actually pushing. DS1's labour was short and since then, i have developed a medical condition that meant i required consultant care during my pregnancy.

I had a scan, my waters had broken (i told the midwife and showed her my pad, but she said it wasn't my waters) and i was having very close and regular contractions. The woman who was doing the scan was completely baffled as to why i was having a growth scan because i was clearly in labour. She kept saying 'are you sure you've told the midwives?!' and told me to tell them again once i got back up there just to make sure, which i did. They seemed completely uninterested/ unconvinced.

I then had some consultants come to see me (i was supposed to have them in the room when i was in labour in case i needed a c-section due to a medical condition that i have, but due to poor planning, they didn't make it in time) who had the cheek to say 'so, you think you're in labour now then?' and stick a HUGE cannula in my hand, despite me telling them they needed to use a smaller one as i have child-sized hands and i've had them before. It was disgusting and SO painful, DP almost passed out.

I was asking for gas and air when it got too much to bear, only to be told they they didn't have it on the pre-labour ward. She said she'd put me on the monitor in two hours time and then see if they could move me down to the labour ward. I was too scared to tell her that i wasn't going to make it another two hours, because she was making me feel like a silly little girl who was making it all up! I started to cry because i though 'either i AM being silly and it's going to get so much more painful than it is now, or this is it and no one but DP believes me!'.

An hour and a half later DP stepped out of the room to get some water. I had a huge contraction with the overwhelming urge to push. I couldn't reach the button to call the midwife, so had to scream as loud as i could to get a passerby's attention. Despite being in hospital for over 24 hours at that point, i hadn't been internally examined at all, and hadn't been put on the monitor for a long while. I was terrified that i wasn't fully dilated and would do some serious damage to myself or the baby if i pushed.

Even at that point she was still asking if she thought i could get in the wheelchair to go down to the labour ward, when i was screaming in pain and terror on the bed. I had to be wheeled through the corridors screaming, which was embarrassing and i also probably frightened the life out of the other women in there!

Luckily the midwives on the labour ward were amazing and the pushing part of my labour was only 13 minutes long, but i felt i had been seriously let down by my midwife on the pre-labour ward.

Sorry, bit long, i've been trying not to think about it for the past few weeks and this just made me rant a little!

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Forgetfulmog · 31/07/2013 11:49

Ok stupid question here - if a doctor/midwife decides to try to break your waters, do they have to ask your permission or is it more "we're going to try to break your waters now"?

DD had IUGR at 32 weeks (wasn't picked up until a 35 week growth scan). I was brought in to be induced at 36 weeks - I initially had the 12 hr one (vvv painful) & then the next morning I had the quick 6 hr pessary (again v painful). Dd very quickly started going into distress & after about 1.5 hrs I was moved onto the labour ward for monitoring.

Things all got a bit pear shaped then, I almost passed out as a mw trying to put a cannula in my hand missed the vein, dds heart rate dropped even lower & then managed to stabilise. Then a doctor said she was going to try to break my waters but "I was a difficult patient to examine". I was given gas & air but still found the experience absolutely agony - I was almost on the ceiling in pain. She couldn't get anywhere near my cervix & they later decided to do EMCS. Not sure if she should have asked if I wanted my waters broken, it's only reading this thread that got me thinking Hmm

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confuddledDOTcom · 31/07/2013 11:50

Whothefuckfarted - I don't know the answer, but I'm hoping that part of this campaign we can start to find answers. It's never too late to ask to speak to someone at the hospital. Either talk to PALS or ask to speak to a Supervisor of Midwives.

Snuppeline - it's all your choice, remember TBRAINS next time (Time/Talk, have we got time, can we talk about it. Benefits, what are they. Risks, are there any. Alternatives, can we try anything else. Instinct, what do you feel about it. Nothing, what if we wait and see. Smile, it helps calm people down, you feel better and they respond to you better). It is not uncommon to "stall" at that sort of point in labour, your body takes a break before the hard work.

Cookethenook - that's terrible. I know we complain sometimes about too much checks, but if a mum is saying she's having contractions it's a good idea to believe her! You still have time to complain if you wish, maybe we can help you with that over on the campaign page.

If there's any birth or legal bods reading this who are willing to help out, please do come over and help! We need your help to get this campaign as good as we can.

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sandberry · 31/07/2013 11:55

Whothefuckfarted-my guess would be he was pushing an anterior lip over the baby's head. This can be very painful. He should have explained this and asked consent though.

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confuddledDOTcom · 31/07/2013 11:59

Forgetfulmog - yes, they can't do anything without your permission. Sometimes in an emergency situation it's sort of on the fly and they're expecting you to just go along with it. In your situation they could have said "we're going to have to break your waters or do a CS as the baby needs to come out quickly"

Was the vvv painful one the jab in the leg? I always forget how painful that one is! If it helps any, they wouldn't have picked up IUGR from one scan, they need a pattern so they may have noticed her weight gain wasn't right but needed the second scan to tell if it's just a small baby or IUGR. With mine they noticed around 24 weeks (I was in labour) and they kept an eye on her until she came at 35 weeks (labour the whole time!) they weren't ready to take her out by that point as she was OK and not dropping too fast.

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Forgetfulmog · 31/07/2013 12:09

Thanks confuddled, interesting to know. I'm still coming to terms with the birth as I did find the whole thing quite traumatic & dd was in SCBU after as well which didn't help the situation! I've got an ongoing query thing with the head of mw at the hospital where dd was born over the lack of skin-to-skin post birth so I might mention the breaking waters to her as well.

No, my inductions were all internal pessaries - I found them v painful, excruciating in fact. Don't know why. I remember having very very tender parts down there after the birth - when the mw gave me a sponge bath I was again almost on the ceiling & they didn't understand why

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confuddledDOTcom · 31/07/2013 12:16

Definitely bring it up. They may not have had a lot of time but they need to think about their words, which is what the campaign is all about.

You would have been sensitive, you'd still done labour even if you hadn't passed a baby through, I think the labour is the hardest part!

The jab in the leg I was thinking about is the steroids. I've never needed inducing, I'm just impatient!

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Forgetfulmog · 31/07/2013 12:18

Ahh sorry didn't clarify - I didn't go into labour at all

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Forgetfulmog · 31/07/2013 12:18

& yy the steroids killed!

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SchroSawMargeryDaw · 31/07/2013 12:19

I had a reasonably good birth experience this time with DS2, despite a few complications.

However, I need to ask about one particular MW, I went in 35 weeks, waters had broken about 3 days earlier and I now had very strong cx, was sent to labour ward where a MW told me what would happen (anti biotic drips going up straight away, constant monitoring etc) even though a consultant and I agreed since there was no other problems and due to a medical condition I have, I could have intermittent monitoring and be in water, I refused and said that I didn't give consent for most of what she was telling me would happen.

She then turned round to my DP and said "well what do you think, it is your baby as well, well I presume it is, is it?" Angry

I ended up leaving the hospital, I told her if I was forced to have these interventions then I would leave and phone a MW to come to the house as I had actually been booked for a HB, I thought that saying this would get her to call a consultant (I was told I couldn't speak to the Consultant who agreed the plan with me) she told me nobody would come to the house and to go if I wanted as what they wanted to do is all that I could have. I left and ended up going back a couple of hours later as I didn't want to risk hurting the baby (I ended up with all the interventions and more anyway as I started passing green waters and was in ketosis but the MWs I seen this time were lovely and caring about it and tried to make me as comfortable as possible, the way it should be really!)

Should she have just used intermittant monitoring like I asked? Should I have been allowed to take a bath if I had wanted and should I have been able to refuse the antibiotics? (I had been on anti-biotics since my waters had broken already) Also, should I have been able to speak to a consultant?

My first birth was a completely other story and I still have nightmares about it.

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Annakin31 · 31/07/2013 12:19

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

WentOnABearHunt · 31/07/2013 12:19

Whothefuckfarted - It could be that the baby was not positioned optimally for birth so the Dr attempted to manually turn baby or flex baby's head. This would be very painful. Also, as said above, he could have been pushing an anterior lip over baby's head (a debatable practice).

Ladies - You do NOT have to consent to vaginal examinations in labour AT all. Not 'routine' ones to 'assess' progress or any others. There might at times e a clinical need - and this should be correctly explained and consent MUST be given from you. They CANNOT break your waters without your explicit consent. ARM is an invasive procedure which carries some risks - these should be explained - not 'oh we are just going to' DONOT accept it. If there is a CLINICAL reason why this should be carried out it should be explained to you. YOUR body. then need your consent to do anything.

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GoodTouchBadTouch · 31/07/2013 12:27

Great idea. I had a termination at 19 weeks with my first pg. The placenta was retained, and this doctor came in and pulled it out with no pain relief. Yukky thing was that he put on gloves, but didn't even bother taking off his leather jacket, just rolled up the sleeves... mustve been on his way home. I did complain, but the hospital said he wasn't a permanent member of staff, and they couldn't trace him.

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WentOnABearHunt · 31/07/2013 12:29

schro - without knowing exact clinical details its difficult to say. Are you were having your labour accelerated (i presume - did you have a drip to give you contractions?) and the baby was preterm they would be indications fro continuous monitoring - HOWEVER you can decline this and have intermittent auscultation (as long as the risks/benifits were explained) You dont have to consent to anything you dont want to. You are well within your rights to decline any monitoring at all if you wish - as long as this is an informed choice.

As for the pool - some places do have restrictions - such as exclusions for preterm or prolonged rupture of membranes... so they could decline you the use of the pool. You would have been well within your rights to have your baby at home though (they cannot put exculsions on this - only tell you why they think it would be not suitable, but once you understand the risks then you are free to make your own mind up). a midwife would be required to attend. If anyone is coming up against restrictions to a homebirth - being told no or whatever, ask to speak to your local 'supervisor of midwives' as they should be able to support you.

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Viviennemary · 31/07/2013 12:32

I didn't have any complaints really. But is there any reason why midwives behave like cheerleaders.

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ninilegsintheair · 31/07/2013 12:37

I was left for 2 hours with DD almost crowning - I'd had to be sent from one hospital to another in ambulance while drugged up on pethadine which wasn't working, I was off my face in pain and fear as I didn't know where I was and husband cowered in the corner as he'd lost his nerve and couldn't speak.

I remember being told off for screaming and when I asked for help the midwives told me to get on with it and there wouldn't be any help until I'd been pushing for a whole 2 hours. Then they just sat and waited.

After those 2 hours were up a doctor was sent in to do an episiotomy and out DD came.

This might be standard procedure but I've never felt so alone and frightened in all my life.

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stripeyspots · 31/07/2013 12:38

I agree, midwives wouldn't believe I was in labour, tried to send me home despite baby being born within 2 hours. Was told I'd wet myself on phone when my waters were broke and literally pouring all over the house, anyone will know there's no mistaking it.

Was told at hospital to stop being hysterical and calm down when babies head was showing and told I probably needed a poo, wouldn't believe I needed to push until they actually saw head then rushed me like maniacs off the ward where I should have been anyway as I was GIVING BIRTH. Ds was born with a cone head from his head sliding in and out while I was ignored when I said I needed to push.

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Carolra · 31/07/2013 12:40

There is a new charity - I think it only got set up this year but this is basically one of their main aims. You should speak to them and do something together maybe? www.birthrights.org.uk/

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