AIBU in thinking that anyone who had ever actually given birth would never let an 11 year old make the decision to give birth?

(167 Posts)
MyHumpsMyLovelyBabyBumps Wed 10-Jul-13 17:10:45

And that if an 11 year old can't make the decision to have consensual sex she can't possibly understand the complexities of pregnancy and labor? Especially as doctors have said it could kill her?

If you haven't heard of this it's one of the most upsetting stories I have ever read in a long while.

latino.foxnews.com/latino/health/2013/07/10/chile-president-praises-pregnant-11-year-old-maturity-for-keeping-baby/

xylem8 Thu 11-Jul-13 15:21:47

just did a search and found out that a 9 year old gave birth in Mexico this year and a 10 year old in Colombia.

The youngest recorded mother was a 5 yr old who gave birth to a 6lb baby

5madthings Thu 11-Jul-13 16:23:29

xylem the link to the five yr old and others has already been posted. Most of them had to have c sections to Orem babies, some of the babies died during birth. Yes young girls get preg but it causes physical rems. If it weren't for c sections both girl and baby would often die in childbirth.

In many of these cases the girls had had precocious puberty, this is often treated now with medications to stop menstruation etc. The fact that young girls get preg and have babies doesn't make it OK. If you look at the list lots of them were made pregnant by close family members, friends, the girls won't have been in a consensual relationship. They were abused.

chocoluvva Thu 11-Jul-13 17:02:08

Girls who are pregnant while still in their teens (or younger obviously) have a greater risk of pre-eclampsia.

In many countries one of the factors that would classify a pregnancy as 'high risk' are being under 17 years old.

What point are you trying to make by citing examples of very young girls who have given birth xylem?

Guessing that if she survives this baby she wont be having any more. sad
I wish someone medical could just talk to her.

MyHumpsMyLovelyBabyBumps Thu 11-Jul-13 18:29:47

I can think of two points xylem could be making. they either think children are ready for sexual contact based on their ability to get pregnant, or their are extremely antichoice of adult women and hoping that stories like this won't make women think too hard about abortion.

xylem8 Thu 11-Jul-13 18:39:34

No point really .I don't condone preteens having babies!!Just following on from the post about the 9 yo

xylem8 Thu 11-Jul-13 18:41:12

I donm't think 11 yos are ready for sexual contact obviously!! But the point I am making is that in a primitive society , and in the animal world females would be getting pregnant as soon as they were sexually mature, and presumably most survive

MyHumpsMyLovelyBabyBumps Thu 11-Jul-13 18:47:53

xylem fucking vets tell people to wait before letting their animals breed for the health of the animal. these pregnancies aren't called high risk because they are so safe

chocoluvva Thu 11-Jul-13 18:49:56

In primitive societies girls often don't get their periods till later then girls in developed countries.

CarpeVinum Thu 11-Jul-13 19:24:58

I donm't think 11 yos are ready for sexual contact obviously!! But the point I am making is that in a primitive society , and in the animal world females would be getting pregnant as soon as they were sexually mature, and presumably most survive

No. Not most. Enough survive. Enough for evolution not to keep on evolving so birth isn't so inherently risky for females and babies in that species.

Girls (the human kind) under 15 are twenty times more likely to die during pregnancy and birth than women over 20. Their children are at a higher risk of prematurity, stillbirth and being part of the infant mortality stats as well as the perinatal mortality stats.

To give context, birth even in countries with low perinatal mortality such as the states is 14 higher than abortion in the same country. Birth has always been dangerous and potentially deadly. The more risk factors added on (and precocious pregnancy is a high risk factor) the greater the potential for injury and death.

And survive does not necessarily mean a good outcome in the physical (let alone the emotional) sense. For an example of just one post birth complication, the rate of fistula leading to shunning and increased degrees of poverty is high in cultures with poor obstetric care. The rate and degree of damage is higher still in younger mothers. I cried buckets at the waste of female humanity as the result of fistula alone after watching a documentary. They were alive. But, whole they were not. Not physically, not emotionally and not psychologically. Being a pariah is no way to live.

Very many of the girls on the list of known very young mother suffered from precocious puberty, an anomaly, with menarche as young as the first year of life and breast development in toddlerhood. Something that tends to get treated these days where quality medical care allows for it.

Nature is not some wise, fluffy entity that knows best. Nature does not care. As long as enough (not most, not many, just enough) of us survive, regardless of state of wellbeing and intactness, then that is "good enough" for nature.

And anybody who remains unconvinced of that needs to google birth in hyaenas and then come back and see if they still think nature is in anyway invested in "most" of any species of mothers or babies surviving for their own sake.

CarpeVinum Thu 11-Jul-13 19:28:28

edit

To give context, the maternal mortality rate of birth even in countries with low perinatal mortality such as the states, is 14 higher than the maternal mortality rate of abortion in the same country

Chunderella Thu 11-Jul-13 19:57:45

No. Not most. Enough survive. Enough for evolution not to keep on evolving so birth isn't so inherently risky for females and babies in that species.

Exactly. That's how evolution works. It isn't necessary for all or even the majority of a species to survive. Just enough of them to keep going. If a process, mutation, whatever, is sufficiently advantageous in other ways, it can make evolutionary sense despite being intrinsically dangerous. Birth amongst humans being a classic example. And of course being able to conceive doesn't mean your body can safely carry a pregnancy and give birth. Even if that were the normal way of things, which it's not, there are always people whose bodies do things 'wrongly'.

NapaCab Thu 11-Jul-13 20:01:37

It's a tragic case and the saddest aspect of it is how it's clearly being manipulated by the media to focus on the debate about abortion laws. The situation she is in would be awful no matter what the abortion laws are. I think it's important to debate abortion in a country like Chile where it's illegal but it's sad that it takes a case like this to get people interested in the issue.

CarpeVinum Thu 11-Jul-13 20:41:58

edit

I am doing so well today... hmm

Girls (the human kind) under 15 are five times more likely to die during pregnancy and birth than women over 20.

edam Thu 11-Jul-13 21:11:30

Napa - it's not 'being manipulated by the media'. The girl is being manipulated by her disgusting stepfather, by her mother and by the government. The media are doing their job by holding the government to account.

QueenStromba Thu 11-Jul-13 23:57:13

I hope this girl and her baby are given into the care of her grandmother - she is the only person who seems to have her best interests at heart.

I felt very sad reading the wiki link about the youngest mothers. Not only had all of these girls reached sexual maturity by the age of ten but they'd also been abused by that age. I was especially saddened by the girl who was a grandmother by the age of 17 - not only was she abused but her daughter was too. Unfortunately pregnant 11 year olds seem to be far too common to bother reporting.

sashh Fri 12-Jul-13 03:43:37

If she has conceived her body has obviously reached sexual maturity so I am not sure why people think her body would not be able to cope with the physical aspects of preganancy and birth

There are huge problems in Pakistan where young girls are married and give birth. They are often left incontinent, their husband and family no longer want them, often he husband finds another child to marry and the same happens again. Other than 'simple' incontinence it s common to a have a fistula that means urine continually feeds into your vagina.

The day you start your periods is not the day your body is ready to carry a baby.

www.jpma.org.pk/full_article_text.php?article_id=1896

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