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To get annoyed when other women say "I'm not a feminist"

(1000 Posts)
Nickabilla Sun 30-Jun-13 21:14:14

As if it's a dirty word and a shameful thing to be? I hear it every now and then and always question it. Someone said it today and I'm annoyed again.

Do some women not realise that women didn't used to be allowed to go to university, get divorced, own property or vote?

Rant over.

I also got totally put off feminism based on the argument I see here that it's alright to insinuate unsavoury behaviours are the domain of an entire gender because it's a 'class based analysis'.

That always just sounds like an excuse for saying something rude and unnecessary about men. It may not always be meant that way, but to outsiders of said 'class based analysis' it is often misunderstood and, I suspect, there are some feminists who like it that way. It's provocative, after all.

WilsonFrickett Sun 30-Jun-13 22:05:15

Who said Sex and the City was a feminist programme in the first place though Sal? I mean, did you see the second movie? If that's feminism then we're all doomed.

blackbirdatglanmore Sun 30-Jun-13 22:05:15

I just get sick of having Caitlin Moran quoted at me ...

SabrinaMulhollandJjones Sun 30-Jun-13 22:05:59

Another mum said to me the other day in the school playground t'other day 'cor you're a real feminist aren't you?' I said "damn right I am.'

I believe I have converted 2 other school moms. So far.

Souredstones Sun 30-Jun-13 22:07:12

It's not a cause to convert people to though.

That Implies there is a fight to be had, a side will win, brings me back to the whole vying for dominance thing

Elquota Sun 30-Jun-13 22:07:26

YANBU.

Presumably anyone who isn't a feminist won't be taking advantage of everything feminists have enabled us to do, such as voting, moving towards equal pay, being allowed to get a degree, a choice of job, not being male property etc. hmm

Zynia41 Sun 30-Jun-13 22:08:34

do you understand that equality is not dominance??

SinisterSal Sun 30-Jun-13 22:08:54

Surely you agree with Better workplace treatment though Souredstones? (Not to sure about Down With Men, don't see much of that)

Spero so one feminist is a meanie? Feminists are only human, good bad or indifferent. It's annoying but shouldn't discredit the movement, which is about more than individuals.

CloudsAndTrees Sun 30-Jun-13 22:10:35

I did ok when I was single too Zynia.

Wilson, everything you said in your second paragraph is why I don't see myself as a feminist. I simply don't care about that stuff, and I feel that I should care about that stuff if I'm going to be a feminist.

That's why it all comes down to what you define a feminist as. I want equal rights, equal pay and all that, but is that enough to make me a feminist?

I don't think it does, because wanting those things just seems like normal common sense to me. But then other women like the OP seem to think I'm annoying simply because I don't have the same opinions as she does.

Souredstones Sun 30-Jun-13 22:10:40

But we aren't equal. We're not lesser, were not better and we are also not equal.

SinisterSal Sun 30-Jun-13 22:11:11

I'm so behind - this thread is moving so fast.

Wilson I seem to remember LOADS of feminist talk about SATC when it started. Didn't see much of it at the start and definitely not at the end. But some people did.

Souredstones Sun 30-Jun-13 22:11:27

Better working conditions should be standard for everyone. Male or female.

WilsonFrickett Sun 30-Jun-13 22:11:52

I am a feminist but I find the way some self identified feminists argue and talk to others really off putting and I can understand why this puts some women off as also identifying as feminist.

I do think sometimes that we hold femisim to higher standards, just because its a feaml thing. If you replace the word 'feminist' with 'woman' (or even 'man' in the above quote) you'll see what I mean. Ther will be some feminists I don't agree with. There will be some feminists who are rude, threatening, or just plain stupid. It's a broad church. It's unrealistic to expect every feminist in the world to agree with every other one, it's unrealistic to expect every feminist in the world to play nicely all the time.

FreudiansSlipper Sun 30-Jun-13 22:11:58

well all the women I know want to have their wages paid to themselves, decide who they marry or have a relationship with, who they vote for, to be able to earn as much as a man doing the same job, to have the right to divorce so all the women I know are feminists

But sadly I do know a few that would rather say they are not a feminist as being a feminist may mean others think you hate men

they tend to always fight for the menz too hmm

SabrinaMulhollandJjones Sun 30-Jun-13 22:12:32

in my particular example it was because I told said mum that it was ridiculous that she worked FT (as an HR Manager) 40+ hrs p/w - her dh is a self employed builder - and all the housework falls to her. I said you're both equals, you both work FT (in fact she works more hours than him) so the housework/childcare should be 50-50. And don't take any crap.

And she said 'god you're a real feminist aren't you?' And I said Damn right I am.

Cos I do think that's ridiculous.

SinisterSal Sun 30-Jun-13 22:13:11

Do you mean treated equal

Or do you mean the same? Souredstones

I believe we are not traeted equally

I believe the differences between us are massively overstated, mostly irrelevant until it comes to sex and reproduction, and massively exacerbated by upbringing.

Souredstones Sun 30-Jun-13 22:13:32

I'd argue that's a human rights thing though freudian because other groups fight for those issues too. It's not exclusively a female issue.

Zynia41 Sun 30-Jun-13 22:13:42

but did you have CHILDREN then clouds?

The sacrifices of parenting affect single mothers far more. Is this something that just doesn't affect you as you are in a relationship? If it doesn't affect you and you don't care, then that's honest but it doesn't mean (surely) that you don't SEE that there are more vulnerable women than you. Single women with dependents. Immigrants. Low earners. Does the law protect these women satisfactorily? or is it just taken for granted that they earn less, bear the brunt of the sacrifices for parenting and aren't protected properly by the law.

Elquota Sun 30-Jun-13 22:13:49

> I am a feminist but I find the way some self identified feminists argue and talk to others really off putting and I can understand why this puts some women off as also identifying as feminist.

Why? If you see some women arguing at the shops, does it put you off shopping and being a woman?

Spero Sun 30-Jun-13 22:13:50

Not one feminist is a 'meanie'. Nice way to trivialise my point.

That was simply one example of the many bullying, condescending and irritating types who self identify as feminists on the internet.

I thought it highly significant that on a forum this large and given the length of time I have been involved that it was a feminist who was so disturbingly and persistantly unpleasant.

Spero Sun 30-Jun-13 22:14:34

There is a particular stance of argument from feminists which is aggressive and tedious; yes, it does put me off.

skylerwhite Sun 30-Jun-13 22:14:37

Souredstones do you believe in equality between people, regardless of gender, sexual orientation, ethnicity? Genuinely interested

Souredstones Sun 30-Jun-13 22:14:58

Again we aren't all equal.

Everyone seems to complain they want to be treated as an individual and then on the other hand says they want to be treated equally. Which do you want because you can't have both.

Souredstones Sun 30-Jun-13 22:16:35

I believe no one is lesser than or greater than any other individual. But we are not equal because we are all different. We all deserve to be treated fairly and with dignity but also whilst acknowledging we are all different.

SconeRhymesWithGone Sun 30-Jun-13 22:16:35

I have posted this on other threads in the past:

thank a feminist

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