Won't some please think of the bigots!? <clutches pearls>

(60 Posts)

[http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/religion/10067062/Gay-marriage-could-stop-Christians-becoming-teachers-or-doctors-church-leaders.html Here.]]

Bigots may be put off from working in certain careers for fear that if they share their bigoted views whilst carrying out their job, it will not be tolerated.

The poor dears!

Binkybix Mon 20-May-13 11:15:38

Somebloke - yes, they are entitled to their views. I query whether they should have a right to express them in a professional capability. They can go for it in their personal life, obvs, as long as they're prepared for those views to be countered.

I think that asserting that gay people should not be allowed to marry is trying to impose your views on others.

MarmaladeTwatkins Mon 20-May-13 11:17:35

"If people cannot separate their own views from behaving politely and even-handedly to others then they should pick a line of work where that isn't going to be a problem."

I agree.

Conversely, I don't agree when people in a profession use their religion as a reason for abstaining from necessary parts of the job i.e the midwives who refused to carry out work pertaining to abortions, on the basis of their religion.

If your views, due to religion or even just personal beliefs, prevent you from performing your job well, you leave.

somebloke123 Mon 20-May-13 11:17:55

Yes *crapswithbears". obviously.

Your position can be summed up as:

What I say is true because it is and anyone who disagrees is a bigot.

Period.

End of.

Obviously.

That is all.

cory Mon 20-May-13 11:18:35

Me too, MumInScotland. And even more do I hate news stories where Christians in the West, surely one of the most cosseted groups in humanity, whine about being persecuted. It reflects on all of us.

Persecution that's what Nero did to the martyrs, it's what the Nazis did to the Jews, what the Buddhists are doing to the Muslims in Myanmar. It happens to Christians too, in some parts of the world.

It is not the same as saying gently "MrsCory the students don't really want to hear your personal views". Christians ought to know that.

'Homophobia encompasses a range of negative attitudes and feelings toward homosexuality or people who are identified or perceived as being lesbian, gay, bisexual or transgender (LGBT). It can be expressed as antipathy, contempt, prejudice, aversion, or hatred, and may be based on irrational fear.'

My god, yes, it's just me.

Please explain to me how thinking homosexuality is wrong is NOT homophobia.

MarmaladeTwatkins Mon 20-May-13 11:20:47

Dictionary definition of bigot: "a person who is obstinately or intolerantly devoted to his or her own opinions and prejudices; especially one who regards or treats the members of a group (as a racial or ethnic group) with hatred and intolerance"

You're being ridiculous, SomeBloke. And you probably know it.

Also, please explain why denying people the right to the same legal rights straight people enjoy is NOT homophobia.

cory Mon 20-May-13 11:22:14

When you take on a professional role you accept certain standards. I cannot for instance tell a student that I find him attractive. This is not persecution or refusing me to express my sexuality, it is simply part of how you behave as a professional: you cannot express yourself fully in a professional role. People who have a problem with that shouldn't take this kind of job in the first place.

Lovecat Mon 20-May-13 11:22:48

There was an utterly ridiculous woman (Grassroots Tory) on R4 yesterday saying if the Gay Marriage bill went ahead she didn't even know if she'd be allowed to call her husband her husband any more and as for her children, how was she meant to bring them up properly when marriage clearly no longer meant anything...?

I can kind of see where the 'swivel-eyed loons' statement came from.

The likes of Britney Spears, Katie Price et al have been far more insulting and damaging to the ideal of marriage than, say, Elton John and David Furnish.

I'm Catholic. I don't feel I have the right to impose my views on others (unless of course they ask for a debate) and in the course of my job it just wouldn't occur to me to do so. Whilst bigots are entitled to their views (I'm fairly bigoted about religious fundamentalists), they are not entitled to force those views on others. Why is that hard to understand?

ComposHat Mon 20-May-13 11:24:52

If people cannot separate their own views from behaving politely and even-handedly to others then they should pick a line of work where that isn't going to be a problem.

Agreed!

Abra1d Mon 20-May-13 11:28:28

'Conversely, I don't agree when people in a profession use their religion as a reason for abstaining from necessary parts of the job i.e the midwives who refused to carry out work pertaining to abortions, on the basis of their religion.

If your views, due to religion or even just personal beliefs, prevent you from performing your job well, you leave.'


My mother was a midwife. As a Catholic she could not help carry out abortions. Back in the more liberal (seriously) times she worked, this was never an issue. How ironic that those who are bigot witch-hunters think that it is acceptable to bully people like this now.

Binkybix Mon 20-May-13 11:29:51

That women on R4 was outrageous! I was shouting at the radio (too much time on hands whist on mat leave).

Asking people to keep their personal views personal and do their job, is now classed as bullying apparently. hmm

cory Mon 20-May-13 11:33:11

I am sure there are plenty of jobs for midwives even today which do not involve carrying abortions, but I would say that the onus is on the jobseeker to make sure the job they apply for is one they can carry out without compromising their conscience.

Dawndonna Mon 20-May-13 11:34:00

ad hominem argument isn't really an argument, is it Somebloke

Abra1d Mon 20-May-13 11:34:23

No, telling midwives they should 'leave' if they can't carry out abortions is bullying. Quite different from telling them to keep personal views personal.

ubik Mon 20-May-13 11:34:27

I think nurses and midwives have always been able to opt out of aspects of their work according to their conscience - ie contraception, abortions, pre/post counselling etc

The difference in the midwives case quoted above was that the midwives wanted to stop caring for women who had undergone abortion full stop which does seem unreasonable to me.

FanjoForTheMammaries Mon 20-May-13 11:35:31

It's PC gorn mad wink

ubik Mon 20-May-13 11:37:35

there story was here

"NHS GGC, which is contesting their action, said it recognised their right not to participate in terminations under the terms of the Abortion Act.

But it maintains that it decided correctly that requiring them to delegate staff to nurse women undergoing medical terminations and to supervise and support staff undertaking that duty was lawful."

It seems these midwives were unwilling to delegate staff to care for the women having terminations.

hmm

ubik Mon 20-May-13 11:38:01

sorry 'the' story -

Abra1d Mon 20-May-13 11:38:07

So, not caring for them AFTER they'd undergone abortion? Oh, see what you mean, that is a bit different, yes.

cory Mon 20-May-13 11:38:47

"No, telling midwives they should 'leave' if they can't carry out abortions is bullying. Quite different from telling them to keep personal views personal."

Has this actually happened though? My understanding is that the midwives wanted to stop providing aftercare after an abortion.

In which case, would you expect a teetotal nurse to refuse to stitch up someone who had fallen over whilst drunk? Or a pacifist nurse to refuse to care for a soldier? Or a nurse who believed in chastity refusing to treat STDs?

Abra1d Mon 20-May-13 11:38:48

Sorry, crosspost there--yes not delegating staff doesn't seem reasonable to me, either.

cory Mon 20-May-13 11:39:47

Sorry cross-posted. Even less defensible then; they wouldn't organise for others to provide for the care they didn't want to provide.

I'm having visitors over to see my DD, so I'll be back later.

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