To think if you practice you should get a chance

(69 Posts)
lisad123everybodydancenow Tue 30-Apr-13 23:29:07

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

MummytoKatie Fri 03-May-13 18:17:04

Right or wrong - it's actually really short sighted.

Netball ability is at least partially about height. I was very sporty and had decent throwing and catching skills but I was also an August birthday so one of the shortest. In primary (which went from Year 4 to Year 7 due to the county I was in) they had netball club for Year 5 to Year 7. I went for ll of Year 5 then half of Year 6 and never got picked. Then my gym club set up a new training session that clashed so I picked that instead.

And then I grew! By the time I got back from the summer in Year 7 I was confusingly tall. And so mix that with the decent ball skills I was really good at netball in lessons. But I now had other commitments on netball team practice so I didn't go. (Plus I'd been put off so wasn't a fan of the whole thing.)

Got to secondary. Played in the A team for the whole time. Only one from my primary.

Was talking to my mum about it recently. Apparently the (ridiculously competitive) PE teacher in primary actually phoned her to try and get her to tell me I had to play.

ll31 Fri 03-May-13 08:02:32

and Yanbu,primary should be about developing all pupils skills and encouraging a love of exercise and activity.

ShadowStorm Thu 02-May-13 22:20:32

YANBU, especially as it's primary school kids.

Even if they do want to pick the best players, you'd think that if they don't have enough for a B team, they could have a core number of good players on the team, and then let the other kids rotate in, so that all the kids get to play at least some games over the year.

Also, it'd make sense for them to try and develop all the kids. If they're putting all the effort into developing the handful of kids who are picked for every match, what are they going to do if one of them gets flu or something and has to miss a few matches?

happyyonisleepyyoni Thu 02-May-13 15:11:00

I agree with you OP, had the same issue with my DS and football.
If kids show the commitment to practice then they should get a chance to play somehow or other in matches, no matter their ability level, whether thats by having a B team or substituting in.

BackforGood Thu 02-May-13 14:59:00

Oh - forgot hockey... they just started that too!

BackforGood Thu 02-May-13 14:57:43

At Primary school level - possibly older, but we are talking about Primary here - teams can substitute players in and out throughout the match. My dd plays a lot of football for her school, and knows that, for each 7 a side game (which is what they play most) there is a squad of 10, and that everyone will play, and everyone (usually except the goalie as she's the only one who wants that job) will, at some point in the game, be on the sidelines. Her school side have won, or come runners up in lots of things this season, and occasionally they have come 3rd or 4th. They play in all sorts of different tournaments - from indoor 4 a side, to outdoor 9 a side. Yes, there are 2 or 3 girls who play %wise more time than some of the others, but everyone who comes to the practices gets to play. Generally the teacher knows which other schools will be stronger / weaker competition and picks his squad accordingly. He then arranges competitions for just the Yr4 / 5s, so they all start getting experience before the league and cup matches in Yr6.
It is of course a massive time commitment for him, and I wouldn't expect many teachers to give even 1/4 of the time he commits to after school sport, but the principle is still the same.
Gentleness - what do you want to know ? It's a state school, 3 form entry. That I know of, they play other schools at : football (girls, and boys), tag rugby (has to be mixed) netball (girls) basketball (mixed), golf, athletics, cricket, table tennis, and there are also dance and gym clubs which are for participation rather than competing against others. Some are run by the PE chap (who has a full time class commitment), others are run by other staff, some by outside coaches. Sometimes he has more than one fixture on a night then another teacher will go along with a parent or two and the fixture goes ahead without him if he is at a competition elsewhere. Not sure when he sees his wife and family though!

Butkin Thu 02-May-13 14:57:38

OP you say that the girls are Yr 5 and 6. Does this mean that they are playing U11 matches against other schools? It is hard for Yr 5s to break into the A team but don't forget they will be the eldest girls next year and should find it much easier as they will be the biggest and, hopefully, most competant.

Butkin Thu 02-May-13 14:43:00

DD's school has been playing competitive sport against other schools since Yr 3. They play - at various times of the year - hockey, netball, rounders and tennis.

DD has been lucky enough to play in all the teams since the start. Now in Yr 5 she has struggled to get in U11s A team because they were all Yr6 girls so she was content to play in the B team. By going to every "Club" after school she's finally broken into the A team - the only Yr 5 girl - and is loving playing in the tournaments etc. She is looking forward to leading her team mates when they move into Yr 6 next year.

A lot of other parents moan that their children don't get picked for the B or C team but as DD points out to me they don't go to all the clubs and don't concentrate fully throughout the lesson/matches. At lot of it is about showing the teachers that they are dedicated as well as skilful.

She also plays for her town hockey team and this also helps because they get harder tuition than she receives at school. It is noticeable that all the A team schoolgirls do the same.

School do have house matches which gives them all a chance to be competitive - no child misses out on these matches unless they select "non-Sport" on those days.

There must be ways and means of managing this. DC's school have a policy that every child that wants to compete will get to do so, at an appropriate level. There is no disguising the level (teams are A/B/C/etc) but a really keen child might be taken as a sub and given part of a game against weaker competition to give them a flavour of a "higher" team, IYSWIM. By year 5-6 there are some DC who clearly do not want to play competitive team sports, and there are other non-competitive but still active sports for them, but when needs must - the head said yesterday that due to the numbers off games for one reason or another, every single child in the top 2 years who was fit was playing in a match.

OP - is there a non-confrontational way that you could ask the school about this - what their policy is? It seems pointless to ask all DC to join if they want to, and then never arrange matches for any but the elite.

Budgiegirlbob Thu 02-May-13 14:15:59

I agree with Reallytired, the school should try to arrange a combination of competitive matches and friendly matches.

My OH runs a school football club, and for competitive matches he will usually pick the strongest players, and I do think that that is the best thing to do. But he also arranges friendlies where the weaker players can get involved.

He also tries to stress that football club is all about having fun at training, they play football skill related games, and also have mini matches against each other. Being picked for the team is just a bonus.

Sometimes though, it's not always the best thing for a weaker player to get picked, if the opposition is strong. There is nothing worse for a child's ego to be the reason that his/her team lost a match ( I speak from personal experience !!), that can be far more humiliating that not being picked in the first place.

Thumbwitch Wed 01-May-13 23:03:09

Agree with Reallytired.

Whatever happened to the "It's not about winning, it's about taking part" maxim?

BegoniaBampot Wed 01-May-13 22:48:05

exactly Reallytired. good points.

ReallyTired Wed 01-May-13 22:34:15

"yabu, the whole point of competition is to win, it's not fair on those who practice hard enough to be the best to be stuck on a losing team just to make the less talented/dedicated feel better about themselves"

Some people would say that winning is not the most important thing in life. Primary school sport is hardly the olympics and children of all levels of ablity need to be catered for.

Not all children are going to be top mathematicans, but children are all given sums at a level that they can cope with. It is called differentiation. Our local gymnastics club has groups for children with special needs and also produced an olympic bronze medalist. Good sports clubs often give children of all ablities opportunites and I feel schools have a duty to do the same.

Children who are weak at sport need a lot of encouragement to continue with sport. I feel that a mixture of friendly/ non competitive matches for the weaker children and competitive matches for the high ablity children.

BegoniaBampot Wed 01-May-13 20:20:04

a good point about the september/august kids. there have been studies done (don't know how thorough) which seem to suggest that the footballers who made it were the older boys in the year. they have the edge over the much younger ones, get picked and it becomes a viscious circle about catch up but where the divide gets bigger. sometimes the same with kids who didn't start early enough and again often never got the chance to catch up.

WorrySighWorrySigh Wed 01-May-13 20:19:22

If this were an out of school club then I would say YABU but this is a school club, run by the school for the school. School sports teams shouldnt be but were in my day run for the aggrandisement of the team or the school.

If parents want all out competition for their children then go to local sports clubs where there will be competition aplenty. School sports should be about teaching teamwork, sportsmanship, participation etc etc.

YANBU

CruCru Wed 01-May-13 16:27:35

This reminds me of my junior school. Are there any other teams she could join (outside school) or other activities she is interested in?

I wonder if, should she drop the practice, they would give her a hard time because they want to keep numbers at practice up (particularly if those who play in matches don't always show up). Is it worth having a word with the coach to see if there's any chance she'll play in a match ever or if she should look into another team or activity? It sounds PFB but she is missing out on the main event by never going to matches.

thezebrawearspurple Wed 01-May-13 16:08:30

yabu, the whole point of competition is to win, it's not fair on those who practice hard enough to be the best to be stuck on a losing team just to make the less talented/dedicated feel better about themselves.

If your daughter wants to compete, she needs to practice harder and more often.

SneezySnatcher Wed 01-May-13 13:43:49

YANBU - I used to coach my primary school's football team before I went on maternity leave. I made sure everyone got a chance to play in a match even the ones who weren't very good.

Sadly, the parents would often complain about me putting on the less confident players and risk losing matches (although we were great). I'm sure if it had been their children who were never picked they wouldn't have been happy.

ReallyTired Wed 01-May-13 13:37:53

I think that primary school level that all children who attend the practice should get the chance to compete. I like the idea of having competitive and non competitive weeks. Talented children need to compete against talented chidlren to improve and the no hopers don't want to be beaten 35 nil.

Otherwise you end up in a situaiton where the netball team is mostly september born girls and the august born children have no chance.

School sport should be about fitness for life particularly at primary school.

Andro Wed 01-May-13 11:38:48

Best players in the A team (and have B team if there are enough numbers). Competitive sport is ultimately about winning, it's soul destroying when someone is 'given a chance' despite being an obvious weak link...it also causes resentment (on the part of more skilled players who have been left out and the rest of the team if they then lose).

Fillyjonk75 Wed 01-May-13 11:27:33

I agree, OP. I was picked for the team I think precisely because I was committed, I was never that good at team sports. Also see drama club. I got picked for parts because I would always be there, learn my lines quickly and everyone elses!

nancy75 Wed 01-May-13 11:24:41

If the school wants to always put out the best team they should pick a squad (team +3) and run the practise sessions just for the squad or make it quite clear that others can come to practise but will not be picked because they are not in the squad.

I don't think it's fair to get little kids turning up week in week out, thinking they might be picked when its not going to happen.

I work for a company that teaches a sport to children and I can assure you that there is massive competition within kids sport form an early age, however there are ways to manage it so that everyone gets a go. We run elite teams for those that are very talented and play 3,4 or 5 times a week, but we also run teams for those that are not quite up to that standard.

ryanboy Wed 01-May-13 11:18:30

forming a B team is the way forward

DontmindifIdo Wed 01-May-13 11:10:12

Well there's 2 things here, firstly, I don't think it's a case that your DD goes to all the practice sessions so should get a place, more that the other children who don't go to practice should learn they lose their place for that week for not turning up to training.

However, it's also a useful lesson that there are somethings you aren't as good at as others, no matter how hard you try. On the face of it, that's not fair, but that's how things outside of schools work. It's not always "if you do X and Y you'll get Z" sometimes, you can do X and Y and not get Z, or someone can miss either X or Y and still get Z.

The only problem with A and B teams is that the gulf gradually gets wider. My DS plays football for the local under 9s, he is doubly disadvantaged as he only joined last year and he has Asperger's syndrome. The coach is brilliant and has set up a B team for the boys who aren't strong enough for the A team (which is very strong, they are top of the area under 9 league), The B team play friendlies but not every week and some of the players play for either team. However it is apparent in training that the A team regulars are getting better and better while the B teamers are improving much more slowly. It is fine for now, my DS is happy with it, he loves it when he gets a game but would get slaughtered in the A team, however I don't think it's is sustainable long term.

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