To not want my ds to be near friend whose dd has not had mmr?

(72 Posts)
orderinformation Sun 07-Apr-13 23:32:36

Dd had mmr at 13 months. A good friend who we play with a lot at her house has just told me her dd didn't have it because they never got round to it. Now my dd is protected because she has had her jabs but 4mo ds is put at risk by this right? Aibu not to want to take him there now I know this, or have them to ours. A friend's dd got measles aged 8 months because lack of mmr take up in our area meant herd immunity lost.

I wasnt vaccinated grin

infamouspoo Mon 08-Apr-13 17:09:39

some of the medical literature suggests that mumps immunity especially may wear off. Bit worrying for young men.

Some vaccines last for life. Some, e.g. tetanus need boosting every few years to ensure continued immunity. I am not a scientist but I think MMR lasts for life.

infamouspoo Mon 08-Apr-13 15:56:45

what happens when young adults get measles or mumps? I worry about vaccine immunity wearing off as they enter university. Can they cope as their immune systems are now mature or is it more serious?

Chunderella Mon 08-Apr-13 13:24:46

While the level of understanding that AmberSocks shows about these things is generally horrifyingly poor, it's possible she's correct that more vaccinated than unvaccinated DC get measles. I don't know, as I've seen no figures for the most recent epidemic. But it wouldn't mean the vaccination was ineffective, or that unvaccinated DC weren't at a higher risk of getting measles. You have to look at the percentages of children in each group who get measles, rather than the absolute numbers. The measles vaccine isn't 100% effective, so some vaccinated DC are bound to get measles if exposed. You would expect that. As there are many more vaccinated DC than unvaccinated, it's quite possible that the small percentage for whom the vaccine doesn't work will outnumber those who have never had it anyway, even if the unvaccinated are several times more likely to catch it. I don't have the necessary stats to know if this is what happened, or even to know if it's correct that the absolute number of vaccinated DC who got measles is higher than the absolute number of unvaccinated DC who did. But it's a possibility.

(obviously you would also need to consider the numbers in each group that have been exposed, but that's more difficult).

My brother almost died as a newborn as the children over the road were not vaccinated. He got whooping cough and spent the first weeks of his life in hospital sad it was a horrible, horrible time.

YANBU. I'm not sure I would risk it with my children either, purely because I have seen the horrible effects.

And yes, I do understand that just because they have not had the vaccination they don't necessarily have the disease and that strangers I see in the street might have something nasty, but you know what? If they can choose to not vaccinate because they 'forgot', then I can choose to minimise the risk by not taking my unvaccinated baby round.

XBenedict Mon 08-Apr-13 13:03:48

People over a certain age, older adults. are thought to have either had measles in the past or, due to living through the number of epidemics there have been throughout their lives, have developed immunity. Of course there will be those who don't fit that description.

redspottydress Mon 08-Apr-13 13:00:47

There was a single vaccine but uptake was way below the recommended 95%. My point being that large numbers of adults are un-vaccinated so should be treated by the OP in the same way as her friend"s child. I don't believe they all had measles either.

shesariver Mon 08-Apr-13 12:42:53

It will be Ambers interpretation of some fact, not real fact, like shes doing all over the other thread.

Agreed, where did you get your evidence for this claim Amber? Those esteemed scientists at the Daily Mail?

HoldMeCloserTonyDanza Mon 08-Apr-13 11:48:35

There was a single vaccine for measles before the MMR was widespread infamous

infamouspoo Mon 08-Apr-13 11:21:44

'Infact, you would need to avoid a large minority of adults over 30. The vaccine was introduced in 1968 and had take up of between 40% and 60% until 1981.'

Thats really interesting because the rates of measles had started to plummet well before 'herd immunity' was even thought of. Why was that?

magdalen Mon 08-Apr-13 11:15:25

Hello everyone,
I am new here, but have encountered the "the majority of cases are amongst vaccinated individuals" argument before.
A useful paper on the subject is one from the Lancet, looking at European cases 2006/2007.
"Measles in Europe: an epidemiological assessment
Mark Muscat, Henrik Bang, Jan Wohlfahrt, Steffen Glismann, Kåre Mølbak, for the EUVAC.NET group"
Regarding the vaccination status (where known, which it was in 90% of cases) of those affected (there were a total of 12, 132 cases, of which the vaccination status was known for 10,915):
Of those individuals who caught measles in 2006: 94% were either unvaccinated (77%) or incompletely vaccinated (17%). In 2007 97% were either unvaccinated (87%) or incompletely vaccinated (10%).
Which means that fully vaccinated individuals made up 6% of cases of measles in Europe in 2006, and 3% of cases in 2007.
Obviously the figures aren't yet in for the outbreak in Wales, but I thought these figures had relevance to the discussion.
Cheers.

XBenedict Mon 08-Apr-13 11:10:37

This is how it was explained to me on my course - Because it's a live vaccine there is the smallest chance it could, in theory, cause the disease. If this happens then the child/adult is infectious even though the disease has developed because of a vaccination. That is why we (practice nurses) are incredibly careful when it comes to immunocompromised patients and we always take the advice of the consultant in charge. Usually the advice is to give the MMR but occasionally vaccination is delayed or not give at all. It totally depends on the individual patient, their medical situation and why they are immunocompromised.

redspottydress Mon 08-Apr-13 10:54:53

Infact, you would need to avoid a large minority of adults over 30. The vaccine was introduced in 1968 and had take up of between 40% and 60% until 1981.

curiousparent Mon 08-Apr-13 10:45:55

just want to clarify I am not saying it is correct re numbers of vaccinated children who can get disease, rather I am posting info. for those who are intersted.

thermalsinapril Mon 08-Apr-13 10:44:43

"I wouldn't take an unvaccinated baby to somewhere that I knew unvaccinated children would be in close contact. Babies are particularly vulnerable."

^ This. I wouldn't tell them it was because of the vaccination thing though, I'd just make up an excuse. Otherwise people would probably start arguing or get the hump.

Trazzletoes Mon 08-Apr-13 10:43:24

curious thank you for the information.

Of course not all vaccines are 100% effective, but Holly was saying that you were more likely to catch measles from a newly vaccinated child. XBenedict has said it's possible but very unlikely. DS' consultant has said it won't happen. I'm interested as to where Holly has got her information from that having the vaccine makes you so infectious that someone is more likely to catch measles from them than from someone with actual measles.

specialsubject Mon 08-Apr-13 10:40:08

Re the age thing: I'm late forties and had the measles jab. (And a spectacular convulsion after, apparently - no after effects of which I'm aware).

as far as I know there were no jabs for mumps or rubella. I had the latter as a disease.

curiousparent Mon 08-Apr-13 10:31:45

To those seeking info. re cases of measles in vaccinated children see below

www.ctvnews.ca/measles-among-vaccinated-kids-raises-questions-1.714236 - there are other bits of info. but I am currently near the end of my work break so short of time.....

Over the Easter weekend a visit to OOH with my 5 yo who has had both MMR vacs suggested he had measles and we had to go to regular GP for a test (by the time we got to GP next day they said Scarlet Fever) but anyway both GP's said it is highly possibly to get measles in vaccinated - I think more so if 'herd immunity' status is too low or something?

x2boys Mon 08-Apr-13 10:25:48

I,M 39 would i have been vaccinated i remember getting rubella in 2nd or 3rd year only the girls though but i also remember having a medical in 5th yr we had polio not unfortunatley on a suger lump and possibly vaccinations very long time ago now so cant remember details

Trazzletoes Mon 08-Apr-13 10:16:14

Just read your post XBenedict blush

Still would like to know why Holly thinks its so likely that newly vaccinated children will be spreading measles willy-nilly though.

Trazzletoes Mon 08-Apr-13 10:13:44

Attenuation takes an infectious agent and alters it so that it becomes harmless or less virulent

Yes. HollyBerryBush harmless. If it is harmless, how will it infect others, please?

I'm genuinely interested - my DD is about to have her first dose of MMR. My DS has a compromised immune system. His consultant has made it perfectly clear that DD getting vaccinated causes NO risk at all to DS. I'm interested to know what medical studies you have to show differently.

infamouspoo Mon 08-Apr-13 10:12:22

''I would not take my baby to play with a child that had not been vaccinated'

offs. An unvaccinated child isnt typhoid Mary. Unless they actually have measles they are perfectly safe <rolls eyes at hysteria>
My child cannot be vaccinated as he has a medical condition. He also has almost no immune system. Cant say I'm getting hysterical at any of this. He goes to school, he plays with friends. I dont ask to see medical records or shriek at a sniffle.

hairtearing Mon 08-Apr-13 10:04:52

Do you know they haven't had single jabs?

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