to think I should have been told?

(231 Posts)
blueballoon79 Fri 29-Mar-13 12:41:25

We were at a Christening a week ago, DP told me today that my son (12 years old) was bullying his son (10 years old) and that someone had seen my son pushing his into a wall and also blocking him from going to the toilet and glaring at him.

I questioned my son today and he told me that DP's son had told him he was going to kill him and that he'd followed him to question him and ask him why and that he'd been in a bad mood and ignored him after that.

DP said a few people had come up to him at the Christening and said they'd seen my son push his into a wall and that my son was stalking him.

I've severely punished my son and have taken his X box from him and will be selling it and have also banned him from auditioning for a play he wanted to take part in.

The problem is my son is still vehemently denying everything and DP says his son had told him that he'd never said to mine that he'd kill him and was crying at the Christening.

Am I being unreasonable to be really angry that nobody told me whilst this was occurring so I could have dealt with it myself there and then? Also that DP has only just told me about it today?

I despise bullying and my son has never done anything like this before and I feel so angry and ashamed that he was behaving this way and other people noticed but I didn't.

blueballoon79 Sat 30-Mar-13 14:06:14

Linerunner I agree. Sometimes I think I'd be better off being single then I wouldn't have all this drama to contend with.

blueballoon79 Sat 30-Mar-13 14:05:18

If ever I bring it up he gets really defensive and stroppy.

He will talk to me about the problems his son is having and will ask my advice, yet when I say what I think he gets really cross and says he knew he shouldn't have told me as I'd use it against him. hmm

I never say anything other than that I think it's not normal behaviour and that if one of mine were saying/behaving that way I'd be seeking professional help.

I've also said I wouldn't have put the baby into the sons room. He started getting angry saying "He's not going to hurt the baby". I said regardless of that he's made it very clear he is extremely jealous and I don't think it's fair on him to have the object of this extreme jealousy in his room with him.

To me, he needs his room to be his own space to retire to when he feels overwhelmed.

He has a lot of issues with anger also which DP fails to acknowledge.

I do think DP feels guilty for not being there for him as much as he could and he also likes to think he's the perfect parent and is very quick to criticise others parenting methods. His parenting views are very old fashioned though and in my opinion very unhelpful when dealing with a little boy who is obviously disturbed and very unhappy.

LineRunner Sat 30-Mar-13 13:58:46

Kitty makes a good point.

Self-blame and hidden guilt are terribly powerful and destructive things. It has propelled my ExH to behave extremely poorly at times. I only recognised it for what it was after reading threads for two years on MN.

SoftKittyWarmKitty Sat 30-Mar-13 13:44:27

Deep down your DP knows his DS has problems that need addressing - that's why he gets stroppy when you raise the issue, then shuts down and refuses to discuss or address what's going on. Maybe he blames himself for not being able to be there for him as much as he'd like due to geographical distance, which means he can't accept his DS has a problem because that then reflects back on him and his parenting. It really needs sorting. What would your DP say if you brought it up again?

LineRunner Sat 30-Mar-13 13:15:06

I think you're doing really well, blue.

Also I agree with Amberleaf's post from last night, where she says sometimes though it's hard to have a social life, but you can be better off being a bit lonely than having the wrong person in your life and your family's life. I know this from a brief mistake some years ago.

blueballoon79 Sat 30-Mar-13 12:35:31

Also, I'm not giving my son any punishment at all.

I've apologised to him and told him that the only thing that I'd have been cross about and that he did wrong was following DP s son instead of talking to me and that I feel he's been punished enough by being accused of things he didn't do.

blueballoon79 Sat 30-Mar-13 12:31:59

That's exactly what I think Softwarmkitty.

Even if he doesn't ever kill anyone ever, he still needs to learn that it's not an acceptable thing to say. If he goes round making threats like that when he's older he'll be in serious trouble!

I agree I was far too harsh on my son in the beginning. I'd only just been told and over reacted totally thinking my son was a bully.

That's why I'm glad I posted on here and got time to think about the situation, time to calm down and take into account what everybody else was saying.

SoftKittyWarmKitty Sat 30-Mar-13 12:06:54

When I read the first few posts on this thread, my heart went out to your son. He's the one who's been intimidated, strangled and had threats to kill him made against him. He denied making any threatening or aggressive behaviour towards your DP's son but you believed your DP's version of events rather than those of your own child, which made me really sad. I'm glad to see that things have turned around and everything is much clearer to you now, and that you're thinking things through with regard to your relationship with your DP.

Your DP's son needs help, that much is clear. We can see that. You can see that. It's a shame his family can't see it as fully as they need to. They're probably minimising his threats to kill his siblings and other children because they think he's only a child and won't be capable of it but we've all seen that some children can and do kill others sad. One day he'll be an adult and if his issues aren't sorted out now, they'll only increase as he gets older. Your DP and the rest of his family need to wake the hell up and get that boy some serious help, before he ends up making headlines.

boxershorts Sat 30-Mar-13 11:24:20

Its a mess. But punishment too severe

blueballoon79 Sat 30-Mar-13 10:42:54

Yes sudaname I think he needs a lot of help, a lot more than he is actually getting.

His mother seems to take it seriously enough in that she obtained counselling for him, yet she has, since the Christening, placed the baby in the room with him!

There is no way in hell I would place a small baby in the room of a child who has stated a desire to kill that baby!

This is just another fact that DP told me later on yesterday and I told him that it will probably have a hell of a lot more to do with his sons bedwetting which started after the christening than any exaggerated incident which occured between my son and his!

sudaname Sat 30-Mar-13 10:26:23

I agree Dontmind in my family the 'Golden Child' is by far the youngest and l think that's how it started by him being the perpetual baby of the family. Everyone cooing 'Ahh look at little Freddie pulling the neighbours cat round by it's tail, the little devil, oh l cant shout at him his cute little face cracks me up' and so on and so forth.
Next minute you've got a six foot 20 year old sociopath on your hands.

sudaname Sat 30-Mar-13 10:18:07

Tbf though l think your SS needs help and not just calling on his behaviour and for people to stop covering for him. He obviously has got serious deep rooted sibling rivalry issues festering away there. Maybe he took an instant dislike to your son because he just saw him as yet another threat to his quota of attention from his dad.
Just my meandering thoughts really on how it seems to me and l do appreciate you have tried to suggest he needs help and got short shrift, so it's a tough one.

DontmindifIdo Sat 30-Mar-13 10:15:26

It's funny isn't it that the Golden Child is often anything but!

In my experience, this is because when non-golden children misbehave as children, they are punished and have that bad behaviour corrected early on, whereas golden children get away with it so never learn it's not acceptable. Bit by bit, the bad behaviour gets scaled up. Your DP's DS is one in the making. IME - children who are never punished for bad behaviour turn out horrible adults.

Inertia Sat 30-Mar-13 10:10:13

Blue, hats off to you for taking suggestions on board and thinking things through for yourself. However things pan out with DP it sounds like you need to keep your wits about you - which isn't great in a supposedly trusting relationship.

There was a small but very significant detail mentioned upthread (sorry I can't remember who spotted it) , where you told your DP about something your son had said , DP said it wasn't true as he had already asked his son yet your DS had never mentioned it before - this shows how readily DP is willing to lie about your son.

A key point is that your son now knows that you will hear him out, which is hugely important.

sudaname Sat 30-Mar-13 10:09:49

Yes it's very much a head in the sand mentality by many families with the black sheep and sometimes it would be far better if there were a few more straight talking stern old aunties or whatever who weren't scared of calling them on their behaviour and going against the grain. It does the wayward child/black sheep no favours whatsoever to form this rose tinted protective shield around them because what then happens when they're out in the big bad world and not surrounded by family but by people who can see their behaviour for what it is and wont tolerate it. My ss for example has been in more arguments on first days at work or on a course or whatever because he is thrown in to a group of people outside family who wont tolerate him.

blueballoon79 Sat 30-Mar-13 09:54:13

sudaname It's funny isn't it that the Golden Child is often anything but!

blueballoon79 Sat 30-Mar-13 09:53:15

Thinking about it, I think what's actually happened is DPs son was crying saying my son was accusing him of saying he'd kill him and told DP and DPs brother that my son was following him around and had pushed him.

I think DP KNEW that his son would have said this but didn't want me to know or his brother to know so kept quiet and brushed it off as just an incident.

I have no idea why he then told me a week later but obviously he chose to blame my son and allow other members of his family to think my son was to blame because he doesn't want to admit that his son was badly behaved AGAIN and would rather bury his head in the sand.

I'm still cross with DP.

I refused to let him come over last night and haven't spoken to him yet today and am extremely pissed off he'd prefer to allow my son to get in trouble simply because he can't admit that his son behaved badly and deal with it appropriately.

Like someone (sorry I can't remember who) said above, my son has been choked by his son, not seen him for a year and when he next sees him is threatened by him. All of this because DPs head is in the sand and he refuses to acknowledge there's a problem.

sudaname Sat 30-Mar-13 09:13:14

Yes l agree that's a very good explanation. Families do this all the time,sort of close ranks and all put on the family issue rose tinteds.
My adult ss is a horror, everyone outside the family can see it and avoids him like the plague (even one member of his family tbf breaks the mould and has no time for him) yet family members speak of him like Golden Child or something permanently infanticising him to excuse his bad behaviour. 'Oh what's he like' or 'he just doesn't think - he's in a world of his own' etc etc said fondly when he does his latest totally selfish or unsociable or even illegal misdemeanour.
Then anything he does that is quite normal to the rest of us is played up to the enth degree how wonderful he is.

blueballoon79 Sat 30-Mar-13 08:46:08

Sorry ten year old not nine year old!

blueballoon79 Sat 30-Mar-13 08:44:38

*Sockreturningpixie" I think your explanation is fantastic.

The entire family will try to hide or minimize DPs sons behaviour.

I was extremely concerned when told he'd been drawing pictures of his older sister, dead and saying he wanted to kill the newborn baby, yet none of them thought it was an issue.

I explained that it wasn't just because I thought he might act out on this but that he was obviously very troubled to be thinking it and to me it sounded like a cry for help.

DP was very angry with me for suggesting this as he felt it's not "as big an issue as I'm making it out to be".

DS has said that yes he followed DPs son but wasn't physical with him. I explained to him that what DPs sons family would have seen is a grumpy 12 year old following round a nine year old and it will have been perceived wrongly and that is why in future if anything ever happens he must come straight to me.

IneedAsockamnesty Fri 29-Mar-13 23:50:31

Adults lie all the time they just don't think they are lying.

Think of it this way, 3 people in a room watching an event all 3 are later asked what happened what the people involved in the event were wearing and what each viewer was doing.

Not one person will give the same account as all 3 will be paying attention to different things at different times and each will approach every aspect of it from their own personal views and bias.

Some types of families are predisposed to approach things from a 'oh no my little Fred wouldn't do anything wrong' angle this is especially likely in a family where little Fred has major emotional or anger issues but nobody wishes to believe it the child's role in any occurrence gets minimised in a method fully intended to highlight that little Fred is normal.

This has gone from they saw xyz to little Fred told them xyz yet you saw nothing,
Little Fred's mother also saw nothing coincidently she was probably the only other person in the room who acknowledges that Fred has issues.
nobody at any time approached you to ask you to deal with it not even your partner who was apparently besieged by people telling you about it.
Little Fred himself didn't approach you even tho it was a marvellous opertunity to get your ds into trouble.
And your ds himself has clarified that yes a much minor version of the reported event had happened but that Fred was equally at fault.

Does that help you see things a bit clearer?

ballstoit Fri 29-Mar-13 22:46:16

Bit weird that his ex was worried about them fighting but didn't notice when they supposedly did hmm

AmberLeaf Fri 29-Mar-13 20:29:39

My first thought when I read this was 'he is jealous of the relationship you have with your son' but I didn't want to jump the gun.

But after reading some of your older posts about this man, I think its close to the truth.

He is testing you, to see if you'll favour him over your son and it nearly worked didn't it?

I bet he has tried to come between you and other people in your life too hasn't he?

Be careful Blue, this man is very bad news for your and your children.

I appreciate that having two disabled children means a social life is difficult [I have a disabled child too] and that loneliness is hard, but being lonely is a far far better prospect than having this dangerous man around you and your children.

You are worth more than this you know.

aldiwhore Fri 29-Mar-13 18:35:24

No punishment should have happened until you'd all sat down as a family... whoever told whoever left you out of the loop, so even if your son did something bad too much time has passed. You've punished your son on hearsay, on someone's word against his, so YABU.

Your DP xis BU.

Your son and your DP's son are largely just acting naturally and ABU for not telling both of you that there was any issue.

Punishment isn't appropriate NOW. Discussion is. You should have a (yes it sounds cheesy) family meeting, lay down some ground rules, allow both boys to have an input into what they feel is fair, draw a line on the past and move forward.

MY son was 'seen' pushing another boy, instead of punishing him out of embarassment and the need to be seen to do something, I put reaction on hold until I'd found out more... turns out the boy he pushes has been harrassing my son for months, and my son, out of shame or whatever, hadn't mentioned it... my son was reprimanded for pushing and we talked to him about telling us things like this, the other boy has been told what has been said, both have been warned that if anything like it happens again, both will be hauled in front of 'the' parents. xx

LadyBeaEGGleEyes Fri 29-Mar-13 18:34:45

You've had other posts before about your issues with your DP, but were still willing to believe his story over your ds's Op sad.

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