To think Universal Credit still won't get the long term unemployed into work and targets the wrong people?

(121 Posts)
retrorita Mon 25-Mar-13 20:14:20

UC (and the bedroom tax) is wrong on so many levels that its hard to know where to start.

I think one of the concerns is that it still won't get the long term employed, who have chosen to live on benefits, into work.

It targets and hurts the wrong people, those who have a real need of the welfare state.

Take my neighbours for example. They are a couple. Have 5 children. And have never worked a day in their life. They have 2 daughters who have left home and have children of their own (both were teenage pregnancies). They have 2 teenagers living at home who are at college. The youngest child is in primary school.

They live in a 3 bed council house.

Even with the recent JSA changes (having to prove you are looking for work etc) they still haven't been made to find employment.

AIBU to think UC will not change this? That they will still manage to avoid work?

I think UC will end up hurting a lot of people but not targeting the people it should be aimed at.

expatinscotland Mon 25-Mar-13 20:19:15

Yes, my cousin 16 times removed is like that. They have 28 children and none of them have ever worked. They started procreating when they were 11 and used the monies they got of selling their story to buy cigarettes. They are definitely undeserving poor! They have Sky and play bingo and have goats living in the back garden. It should be the workhouse for such people and mandatory sterilisation. Or shooting. That would be much cheaper.

Go BNP! Go UKIP! Stick it to 'em.

hmm biscuit

ThePinkOcelot Mon 25-Mar-13 20:21:41

Is there an idiots guide to UC anywhere? I have no idea what it is going to do and whether I will be affected or not.

retrorita Mon 25-Mar-13 20:22:17

I don't believe people should be put into the workhouse.

I also don't believe people should be able to live on benefits for the whole of their life if they have no disabilities.

Surely most people believe that the welfare state should be a safety net not a lifestyle choice?

retrorita Mon 25-Mar-13 20:23:48

ThePinkOcelot

Read it and weep. Its truly terrifying.

But I don't think it will help move the long term unemployed into work. It will just hurt a lot of other people IMHO.

expatinscotland Mon 25-Mar-13 20:25:39

No way! It should be a lifestyle choice. I mean, fags, booze, bingo, endless shagging to procreating, Sky and fresh-roasted goat for dinner every night. What is not to like? I mean, so many like my cousin 11 times removed out there. You know, take my dog's friend's master's neighbour 8 doors down. Such a scrounger! Got pregnant as a pre-teen just to get a free goat!

propertyNIGHTmareBEFOREXMAS Mon 25-Mar-13 20:25:56

Message deleted by Mumsnet for breaking our Talk Guidelines. Replies may also be deleted.

CockyFox Mon 25-Mar-13 20:26:47

It will hurt a lot of people, the long term unemployed included.
I really don't think anyone chooses to be on benefits, at some level it is dictated by circumstance in all cases. Whether that be due to disability, caring responsibilities or the simple lack of jobs.

expatinscotland Mon 25-Mar-13 20:28:01

Ah, but property, is she truly disabled, or one of those undeserving fakers with a bad back like the OP's fabled neighbour and my hamster's pet sitter's great-granddaughter's son-in-law? He's just using it as a lifestyle choice!

retrorita Mon 25-Mar-13 20:28:20

I'm saying that the disabled poster on MN shouldn't be targeted but will be.

That is what is wrong with UC. It is going to target the wrong people.

EntWife Mon 25-Mar-13 20:28:47

I thought the purpose of universal credit was simply to unify the benefit system. It is a cost saving exercise for the welfare beaurocracy I thought.

Other means are being used to encourage welfare recipients into work. Things like the welfare cap, the proposed childcare rebate etc.

The bedroom tax its more about trying to free up larger homes from underoccupation our so I thought.

You are right though in that very little of the measures announced to date by the government will do anything to really change the way the truly feckless live. But then the truly feckless make up such a tiny minority of claimants that changing the whole system to deal with them becomes a losing cost benefit analysis.

Cocky, I'm not sure. I don't exactly think people choose to be on benefits; more that benefits are, as things stands "generous." I've put that in inverted commas, I don't believe in the plasma-screen, BMW myth grin However, if the only alternative is a minimum wage job, often hard work in unpleasant conditions then to be honest benefits are a better alternative for many. I don't think many people intend to be on them long term but they are - I know a lot of girls like this, who had DCs and somehow never got back to work. Not quite a lifestyle choice but not quite 'not' a lifestyle choice, either.

I'm afraid I am in favour of benefit reform. blush <risks the wrath of Mumsnet>

propertyNIGHTmareBEFOREXMAS Mon 25-Mar-13 20:31:47

Exactly, Expat. If OP saw our regular poster she would probably not realise that the poster suffers from several epileptic seizures a day. OP might be quite surprised to learn that you can't tell who is 'deserving' or 'undeserving' at a glance.

pedrohedges Mon 25-Mar-13 20:31:57

What's wrong is that i get around £20000 a year and i work, have partner and 3 dc's.
My mate is married, 6 dc's, neither work yet they get £32000 total.
Both haven't worked a day in their lives and never plan too. Her mother and sister are both the same.
This needs to be stopped and with universal credit it will.
Don't get me wrong, she's a damn good mum but she's become too entitled and is angry that her money will be capped.

My mum has muscle wastage and will probably be in a wheelchair in the next couple of years, she's in immense pain most of the time. Yet they won't allow her to have disability.Where's my nan has a disability element in her benefits just because she's old? wtf? The whole system is bloody wrong.

retrorita Mon 25-Mar-13 20:32:29

Expat - not fabled. I've lived next door to them for 6 years. They exist.

And they are quite nice. I just used them as an example as to why I think UC is going to fail if its main aim is to get the long term unemployed into work.

expatinscotland Mon 25-Mar-13 20:33:24

Yes, they are! They are everywhere!

pedrohedges Mon 25-Mar-13 20:34:10

@ property. One of my good friends has had her disability taken from her. She's a single, diabetic who's just getting over a stroke. She'll never be able to work but they've put her on the dole!!
Why are they taking it out on the wrong people?

expatinscotland Mon 25-Mar-13 20:35:18

Newsflash: the aim is to dismantle the welfare system excepting pensions and pensioners, not get the long-term unemployed into work. You'd need serious investment in job creation for that to occur. It's easier and cheaper to just poach a few coats and worry the sheeple so they don't notice. Only, even most sheep are cleverer than the many who fall for this government's claptrap.

Property - my brother has epileptic seizures and isn't entitled to a penny. I wouldn't mind but he really could do with it as well as he can't drive and since he does shift work (heathcare assistant) he relies on my dad to take him to shifts or get a taxi which is a lot given HCA work isn't highly paid.

There's no rhyme or reason to it. I think that is one of the reasons people like me who are usually quite liberal are just sick of the benefits system as it is.

CockyFox Mon 25-Mar-13 20:36:33

I don't think benefits are generous, I remember when both DH and I were out of work before children and due to lack of contributions only he was entitled to JSA. we were coming to the end of the fortnight and found a single £1 down the back of the sofa and were able to buy a few potatoes and tin of beans and have the only meal of the day.
I can't imagine having to do that now with the children, and nobody would choose that if theu had a real choice.

propertyNIGHTmareBEFOREXMAS Mon 25-Mar-13 20:36:54

They are taking it out on everyone. There is no distinguishing between 'the poor '.

expatinscotland Mon 25-Mar-13 20:36:55

'Why are they taking it out on the wrong people?'

Because there are no 'wrong people'! The percentage of so-called scroungers and fraudsters is very, very low. This is to get rid of it. Is it that hard to see?

retrorita Mon 25-Mar-13 20:37:10

property - I know my neighbours. No disabilities. But they are by the by. They were just an example of people that live on benefits with no intentions of finding work. Not because they can't work (like the disabled poster mentioned above) but because they don't want to.

Or are we not allowed to admit people like that actually exist?

And I'm not a troll property, I've been here since 2007.

Cocky - you would have been entitled to far more had you had children, I actually had someone official 'suggest' to me I should get pregnant when I was homeless (ages ago, thank God!)

There is very little help for adults without children, hence why my brother is in need.

LadyBeagleEyes Mon 25-Mar-13 20:39:25

Thanks for your posts expat.
Made me smile and shout Yay You Go Girl at the time.grin
MN is full of these type of posts tonight.
It's a full moon though, I think that's when the ranters come out.

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