Sub-letting of council accommodation. Why are so many mothers on welfare who still have active sexual relationships with the father of their child, are not living in the flat or house allocate for the

(292 Posts)
SubLetFun Mon 25-Mar-13 13:30:36

I know of at least five relationships where this is happening.

The fathers are still, actively in the children?s lives, and there is no apparent relationship problem, but they are living apart.

The mothers live part or most of their lives at the parents? (council) houses and in some cases the fathers do as well, so that they can sublet their council houses. I have not reported them yet. Should I?

Snowme Wed 27-Mar-13 11:26:50

Yes Cecily, they'd never been sold, the landlord was happy enough to state they were all sublet.

CecilyP Wed 27-Mar-13 11:08:05

I haven't read the whole thread, too much mickey taking going on, but I once lived in a commuter village with a tiny council estate, and half a dozen of the houses were sublet by gypsies, because I rented from them and they were open about it. They continued to live on their traveller site at the other end of the village and sublet their council houses. So it does happen.

Are you sure these houses were still owned by the council? Houses on tiny council estates in rural areas tended to be the first to be snapped up under the right to buy legislation, such there would be no council owned houses left.

CecilyP Wed 27-Mar-13 11:03:19

I know someone who has a flat in East London but took her kids out of school and moved abroad 4 years ago. She lets her flat for £1200 a month and still draws some benefits and thinks it is hilarious that nobody has yet noticed her children don't go to school but they still pay. (relation so no choice but to know her)

There is no rule that you can't report your relations though. This is an extreme case and I certainly would report this person if I knew them.

CecilyP Wed 27-Mar-13 11:00:25

The subletting must be stopped. I wonder what incentives are available for those who report and stop these things?

Just the sheer satisfaction of knowing you have done your civic duty, Xenia.

If you got double benefit for a week if your report directly led to someone being stopped cheating if that would help or if you could move into the sublet property you report

Strange suggestion and hardly relevant to OP as she is working and it would be way beneath her dignity to live in council accommodation.

Snowme Wed 27-Mar-13 10:41:24

I haven't read the whole thread, too much mickey taking going on, but I once lived in a commuter village with a tiny council estate, and half a dozen of the houses were sublet by gypsies, because I rented from them and they were open about it. They continued to live on their traveller site at the other end of the village and sublet their council houses. So it does happen.

theodorakisses Wed 27-Mar-13 10:12:29

I know someone who has a flat in East London but took her kids out of school and moved abroad 4 years ago. She lets her flat for £1200 a month and still draws some benefits and thinks it is hilarious that nobody has yet noticed her children don't go to school but they still pay. (relation so no choice but to know her)

lainiekazan Wed 27-Mar-13 09:59:12

I'm not sure much happens if you report people. I know someone who was shopped for housing benefit fraud (of which they were guilty). All that happened was that they were called in for an interview and then no further action was taken. Person was claiming to be a single mother. Her partner's mother owned the house. And he owned his mother's house! I think the council was too confused to do anything about it.

Xenia Wed 27-Mar-13 09:30:33

The subletting must be stopped. I wonder what incentives are available for those who report and stop these things? If you got double benefit for a week if your report directly led to someone being stopped cheating if that would help or if you could move into the sublet property you report.

MrsKeithRichards Wed 27-Mar-13 06:56:58

Ad thankfully there is no such thing as honest or dishonest taxes. Taxes are a sum of money taken from what you earn, spend, save or leaves behind. They don't have human personality traits.

And, agAin thankfully, who is and is not in need is not your decision to make!

MrsKeithRichards Wed 27-Mar-13 06:54:42

And therein lies the rub. News flash. Social housing I'd not just for the non workers out there.

And neither should it be. Round my way people paying full rent are spending more on that a month than I am on my mortgage but they choose not to buy for a number of reasons. There is no pride in being saddled with a mortgage for the rest of your days. I got one, I was 21 and it took half an hour on the phone and the price of sending off some documents. Nothing there to be overly proud off is there? I pay my money every month in the same way my neighbours do, just mine goes to the bank and there's goes to the council. One neighbour I can think off both work full time. They'll pay full rent and have done all their live. I've been next door to them for 7 years now, not once have I seen the council out at them for repairs etc. So, they're both paying tax, council tax and rent yet requiring nothing in return.

When they die their house will go to someone else that needs it. Mine will go back onto an impossible and over inflated market ready to trap someone else for the rest of their lives! There is an obsession with owning your own home. I don't get it.

IneedAsockamnesty Wed 27-Mar-13 00:38:21

So you just added the nails and Disney stuff in purely to defend it did you?

Don't talk rubbish it is not relevant at all to subletting so not relevant at all to the situation you blatantly obviously put that info out there to further compound your "ohhhh how scummy and feckless and frivolous are they" view point.

That is very clear.
Oh and they didnt ever give a declaration stating the father had left them as no benefit declaration requires them to,all they have done is stated they are no longer living togather as if they are husband and wife. Its quite clear from the info you have given that they are quite correct in claiming this so purely on that bit they have done nothing wrong therefore how can doing something that is not wrong make doing something else that is wrong worse?

Do you really not understand the difference between a desire to work and a income declaration?

To make it very simple

Desire to work means wanting to work a lack of desire to work means not wanting to work.

An income declaration is when you tell people who need to know what income you have.

Working or not working has no impact on housing waiting lists the two things are not connected unless we are talking about people who can afford to rent or buy not doing so just so they can be on the homeless list because keeping yourself homeless when you are able to fix it is pure stupidity.but again that's nothing to do with subletting.

Subletting without consent is a crime so report it that way you will have done your bit to reducing the waiting list, well it probably won't because all they really have to do is boot out the subletee and move back in. But its still a crime and reporting will force them to use the house unless they have a legit reason for being absent,if that's the case it will force them to leave it empty until they return.

Next time you wish to benefit bash by stealth don't try and kid yourself that you are not doing so because it just makes you look abit daft.

AmberLeaf Wed 27-Mar-13 00:08:06

They are proud of the subletting business, brazen. Unbelievable. There is no respect for people who work. They are mocking of those who work

Im picturing this woman grin

Watch out for the cherries.

SubLetFun Wed 27-Mar-13 00:06:12

Nails and Disney, ha, ha, I defended differences in taste! Read it properly! It was pages back. I said their taste was their business. A few posters supposed that the children wanted spray tans. How presumptious! Their ability to spend in the absence of work is funded by subletting of council accomodation, they compound the situation by stating that the father left them and they are now alone. Untrue!

You say The council quite rightly don't give a flying fuck who wants to work and who doesn't as working status has no baring on housing other than income.

Other than income! Do tell me about the income derived from non-working status for the fit, healthy person of non-retirement age who is not nursing or studying or actively seeking work nor inheriting money or a pools/lottery winner.

The waiting lists are overflowing. Something has to give. Why would someone capable of work not want to while using a scarce resource paid for others working hard and paying taxes?

Have to go now, must be up early to work and pay my honest taxes to help those who are in genuine need!

IneedAsockamnesty Tue 26-Mar-13 22:26:15

Their lack of ambition towards work is nothing to do with the council its a matter for their dwp advisor to tackle if they are on a benefit that requires then to look for work.

Do you know exactly what benefit is being claimed?

The council quite rightly don't give a flying fuck who wants to work and who doesn't as working status has no baring on housing other than income.

IneedAsockamnesty Tue 26-Mar-13 22:19:48

They are under no obligation to disclose to anybody the amount of contact a child has with the dad nor who the adults sleep with.

They are not lying they are clearly not living together as a couple. Benefit law cannot and should not be able to force two people to live together when they have no desire to do so, it can also not force someone to have a traditional relationship nor formalise a relationship where the people in that do not wish to do so.

The subletting is a completely different issue to this, the whole point of things being different issues is when I say this bit is not fraud but this bit is you don't then jump in with oh but they are committing this type of fraud especially when I have agreed with you that yes it is. Its pointless and silly and undermines your entire argument.

The 3 month thing keeping hold of it purely for subletting reasons as opposed to intending to return to reside is relevant

The money comment was with regard to your almost constant posting about nails and Disney and activities ect again its irrelevant as they are allowed to spend money on what ever they want with the exception of funds obtained where you are required to prove the associated expenditure

Who has said that I am defending anybody? I'm not and so far I've not seen anybody else say I have unless what you mean is you think I am. If that's the case your very wrong. If you come across as a busybody ranting benefit claimant basher you will dilute the impact of anything you say quite probably leading to you being ignored because they get thousands of calls a year just like that and they mostly get ignored.

As to the friendly bit you seriously expect anybody to believe you are unfriendly towards these people yet they still provide you with all these details that you don't associate with them having personal chats but they just randomly hand you enough info to get themselves into deep shit?

SubLetFun Tue 26-Mar-13 21:53:48

They are proud of the subletting business, brazen. Unbelievable. The worst thing is that there is pressure not to get a job, to be in with the others in the group. Enough of them are doing it, to make it seem a good way to make cash, x is doing it, y is doing it, so z thinks it is fine. There is no respect for people who work. They are mocking of those who work. If they talk about a menial job. I would think, well everyone has to start somewhere, they will take the piss out of them unmercifully. We are quite removed from the situation, no threat and not in the area, therefore the openess but they don't care, the councils have little bite.

BreconBeBuggered Tue 26-Mar-13 21:52:14

Pixie does have a point, OP. If you have names, addresses and reasonable evidence, report that. Don't waste your breath pontificating about benefit claimants, their sex lives or their holidays. It makes you sound more like someone with a personal axe to grind than a concerned citizen.

hwjm1945 Tue 26-Mar-13 21:44:22

People 're remarkably free with information about fraud they are committing.report for the bald fact of I
Subletting. Social housing is for those
most in needs. Not as a cash cow
For those who sublet.forget the rest of it

SubLetFun Tue 26-Mar-13 21:34:30

Sockreturningpixise

It does not matter if the dads are in the children's lives its perfectly acceptable to be.

Why lie and claim that the father has left, then? As others have said, it seems there are added benefits to be gained from this.

It is also ok to have sex and visit whom ever you wish no matter what benefits you claim. Why lie then? They are living in their parents' council home and illegally subletting to other people for cash in hand. There is a long waiting list of people who could be using that home. They are allowing people to jump the waiting list. Is it good for children to carted about between homes with no fixed base?

It is also ok to stay at friends or family's houses for up to 3 months all in one go as long as you have an intention to return to your own home.

Oh, they have every intention of keeping hold of their 'home' as they are subletting it for cash in hand! This is way longer than 3 months.

It is ok to spend your money on what ever you wish.

What money are you talking about? I don't know what that is referring to exactly?

However it is not ok to sublet without consent

Yep. That is what they are doing

So report them for this but stick to that without going into all the ramblings and nonsense you have on here because if you don't nobody will pay any attention to your report as it will sound like your a busy body benefit bashing weirdo. Is that how you see it. Hmm. Others have said that you are defending the well organised fraudsters who have a good system going on with this.

Also do your self a favour stop being friendly with people like this as you are doing you and them a disservice It's interesting to hear. I didn't say that I am friendly with them, I told you it was their verbal diarrhoea! They're wasting valuable resources that hard working people willingly allow their taxes to contribute to in good faith.

IneedAsockamnesty Tue 26-Mar-13 21:22:42

It does not matter if the dads are in the children's lives its perfectly acceptable to be.

It is also ok to have sex and visit whom ever you wish no matter what benefits you claim.

It is also ok to stay at friends or family's houses for up to 3 months all in one go as long as you have an intention to return to your own home.

It is ok to spend your money on what ever you wish.

However it is not ok to sublet without consent

So report them for this but stick to that without going into all the ramblings and nonsense you have on here because if you don't nobody will pay any attention to your report as it will sound like your a busy body benefit bashing weirdo.

Also do your self a favour stop being friendly with people like this as you are doing you and them a disservice

SubLetFun Tue 26-Mar-13 21:19:33

Meant to say, StormyBrid, not StormBird! grin

SubLetFun Tue 26-Mar-13 21:13:22

StormBird, your quotes are in bold.

If these couples have illegally sublet their house, they are not living in it themselves.

That's obvious by the word 'sublet'. They are receiving cash-in-hand for sublets intended for them.

They are committing fraud if they claim housing benefit for it

Yes they are.

They are committing fraud for not truthfully informing the relevant authorities about their housing situation when claiming other benefits.

Yes.

But by your own admission they are each living with their own parents, separately; that is to say, not together.

No, they spend time there and visit each other when not in the evenings, then go to the other council house (owned by other set of parents) when the other siblings are not using it in the same way.

They are committing fraud by being counted as distinct households rather than part of their parents'

Yes.

but they are not committing fraud when they say they're not (to use the DWP's own phrasing) "living together as though married". Because they're not living together.

The fathers are in their children's lives. They are there on a constant basis or if not visiting and then they shift to the other parents' homes. They are having meals together. They are watching programmes together.

How does the council define 'living together'?

SubLetFun Tue 26-Mar-13 20:52:29

I don't know about their sex lives! I know that the fathers are actively involved, there are ongoing relationships with the pretence that they are single. I presume that there is some sex involved, pregnancy results! Not interested in the frequency/type of sex. Point is that they feel the need to lie on forms and say that they would like a flat, then sublet it and move the children about between two parental houses.

No, I am not friends with this group. I am told all this, every time I take a friend to see them for a couple of decades. Over that time, I have heard all about it and been introduced. Sorry to say it CecilyP, but they do love to brag about it all, getting one over on the taxpayer is half the fun for them. It's like verbal diarrhoea, they want to tell you all about it. Believe it or not, I have not thought about who is financing the upkeep of the council housing. I had thought it was them, but I had been told that they are helped with it, wanted to verification. Why do I want to get into a conversation about painting and decorating with them? I know that some people go into council flats and do it as voluntary work.

I have a couple of friends who lived on council estates when young, then got out. They are not the group I am talking about.

CecilyP Tue 26-Mar-13 19:12:22

Painting has never come up

So these people are part of your diverse friendship group and they have never mentioned decorating - none of them. Yet you seem to know all about your friends' sex lives.

CecilyP Tue 26-Mar-13 19:10:27

I think suburbophobe has given a rather large hint about where she actually lives.

Join the discussion

Join the discussion

Registering is free, easy, and means you can join in the discussion, get discounts, win prizes and lots more.

Register now