Angry another attack on sahm mum!

(364 Posts)
mam29 Mon 18-Mar-13 20:23:10

I was worried about new childcare arrangements and its got high limit earn up to 150k but both parents have to be working.

Im guessing from this article the current childcare voucher scheme being phased out

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-21833929

where exactly are these term time jobs and cheap flexible childcare.

where are all these jobs that dont seem to require person to be fully flexible.

had 1st in 2006 went back full time when she was one in 2007.
fulltime place 52weeks nursery was 9000 a year you can claim relief up to 6k.

used vouchers

quit work after no 2 used vouchers for preschool education who had reduced to 1day a week doing nursery.

child no 2 started 1day a week from 18months and nursery been really good for her development. its £40 a day so 160 on 4week month.

husband used couchers as he works fulltime saves us a little.

child 2 now gets 15hour funding which helps.

was hoping to start child no 3 and use childcare vouchers now looks like cant do that and might have to wait until fnding term after 3rd birthday which think is bit late.

To make matters worse child no 2 has september birthday so missed this sept school year by 16days so have year extra paying childcare.

we lucky we dident lose child benefit as at moment we below 50k
we lost £10 a week childcare tax credits last april.

feel sorry for sahm mum whos husnand earns over 50k loses cb and now childcare vouchers yet they say preschool education is important and good for educational outcomes.

we very much feeling squeezed middle tonight as we just about get by each month as we privatly rent too.

janey68 Sun 24-Mar-13 09:29:44

Ssd- I completely agree with you that parenting is tough.

One point- and this isn't directed at anyone in particular, just an observation. I've often seen on threads, SAHM commenting that they don't need approbation from a job to make them feel self worth. (this often comes up in the context of a WOHM saying she gains self esteem and fulfilment from her work.) However, one theme of the current threads doing the rounds is that SAHM feel they need exactly that. The word 'recognition' has come up frequently. They want recognition that parenting and organising a home is not always easy and is valued.

I think this is a really tricky area, because of course respect and appreciation should come from within your family. Just as the family (as well as the employer) should value any family member who is working and contributing to the family. I am still unclear though as to what other form of recognition it is that people are after. People cant be paid to stay at home!

I guess this highlights a wider issue, which isn't about money, but that generally in society, parenting is perhaps not recognised as the difficult role it is- or at least to do well. Any idiot can father or give birth to countless children, but raising well adjusted young people is another matter entirely.

Of course this isn't specifically a SAHM Issue though. If we want to show value and respect for parenting, then it applies to all parents who are doing their best at it. I am a WOHM and I gain recognition for my work role in the form of salary and professional respect, but I'm also raising children and running a home.

ssd Sun 24-Mar-13 08:37:22

that was I've done it myself (and here's me slating mams grammar grin)

ssd Sun 24-Mar-13 08:33:49

mam your posts hurt my head, I can't read them without having to go back over things a few times and make out what you are saying, you are totally confusing me.....to be honest you lost me when you said you voted tory...

FWIW I get embarrassed reading sahms listing everything they do all day. I stayed at home, more or less, when the kids were small and I've only ever worked around dh's shifts..now I work around the school day. I know lots of mums who have kids in school and they don't work, mainly because they don't need the money. But I've often heard them telling me what they do during the day and how exhausted they are and it makes me wince. I only work 10-3 so I'm a bit stuck in the middle, haven't got all day to myself but also am there before and after school every day. When you aren't working its easy to get caught up in the bitty things that happen all the time and make them out to be major events, I know as I've don't it myself.

I have always thought its easier to go out to work when the kids are small but easier to stay at home when they start school. More of us need to be honest about our decisions, the good and the bad. Nothing about being a mum is a walk in the park.

MummytoKatie Sun 24-Mar-13 02:12:01

Ok - the personal allowance is going up from £8000ish to £9400 ish. The 20% rate is falling from £35k to £32k.

So the point where higher rate tax kicks in is falling from £43k to just under £42k. But you will get an extra £1400 with no tax to pay which will covers the gap for those on the borderline.

Also - people always think the tax bands are 0%, 20% and 40%. But they don't allow for NI (which roughly reduces at the same point as higher rate tax kicks in.) So in fact it is 0%, 33%, 43% so nowhere near as big a jump as it first seems.

The other thing to remember is that if you are over the higher rate tax threshold then you only pay the higher rate tax on that which is over the line. Not the full amount.

People talk with horror about being caught in the higher rate tax trap as if something terrible will happen there. But I've been paying higher rate tax since 2004 and when you go first go over the line it really isn't that big a deal.* You start paying a slightly higher proportion of tax but it is only when your salary gets quite a bit higher that you notice a difference. And then you have more salary anyway so less of a problem. No-one puts you in the stocks and throws rotten tomatoes at you just because you pay HRT I promise!

* If you joined the childcare voucher scheme after April 2011 you do get less once HRT kicks in which isn't great (dh is affected by this as he was made redundant in March 2011 so had to rejoin the scheme once he had a new job) but it's just the way it is.

mam29 Sun 24-Mar-13 00:26:03

Thankyou thats very helpful as looks like its decreasing every year therefore dragging more people into higher rate 40%tax.

I guess in a way it still is just the amounts I said were incorrect as thourght it was taken as in from next year

I now get what you mean but this year will be

over 35k
next year will be 32k

so its reduced by 2k therefore meaning more people paying higher rate or am I being a pleb?

Dont know why they say tax does not have to be taxing.

think he has deductions for travel as well as childcare vouchers.

Permanentlyexhausted Sun 24-Mar-13 00:08:33
Permanentlyexhausted Sun 24-Mar-13 00:07:44

I agree it is a very confusing table.

Look at this one: http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/incometax/basics.htm#6. Follow the "How much income tax you pay" link and then read the notes below, particularly the one that says

Remember, the tax band applies to your income after your tax allowances and any reliefs have been taken into account - you're not taxed on all of your income.

The amounts shown in the table do not include the tax free allowance.

mam29 Sat 23-Mar-13 23:54:08
mam29 Sat 23-Mar-13 23:53:16

Why the heck does inland revenue says it does then?

surlys its an official source?

www.hmrc.gov.uk/incometax/basics.htm

another link says its 32k next year.

Permanentlyexhausted Sat 23-Mar-13 23:44:09

Mam29 "I also dident realise that each year the higher tax band changed so more and more people are being caught into paying 40%tax even husband thourght it was 40k its 35 lowering to 32k next year."

No, it isn't! Didn't you read my last post back on about page 3 or 4? Higher rate tax starts at around £42K. That is when you are earning £32K over the £10K tax free allowance. Not at £32K total earnings. I've already explained it twice (three times now) but you seem to persist in wringing your hands over something which just isn't happening.

mam29 Sat 23-Mar-13 23:25:59

Mummy to katie-thanks for reassurance I know its coming in in 2015 not suer if some consulatation soon.

If hubby stays with current company then he can contnue with current status but if he changes job fear we have to enter new scheme.

My 3.5year old does

8-6 thur nursery-2prechool sessions from grant so 6hours term time only.she does 2sessions in preschool which are free as term time only no shortfall.

I pay the extra and the holidays as 14weeks not covered by grant and shes due to start school september 2014.

My 3rd child childs 2 in 2weeks time and due to delayed speech was thinking starting him bit earlier than originally thourght as bee good for him.

preschools 1 big room, nursery better to cater for younger ones as own 2s room, sleep facilities as he still naps.

I was planning on starting him thursday and trying to do freelance work on that day.

hubby gets 160taken pre tax and that saves us £40 a month so £480 a year not a huge sum.

If hubby was to change jobs and be forced on new scheme the only way i can go back when kids in school would be use childminder which new vouchers initially age 5 and current ones used for wrap around care they say eventuially be upto age 12 but they dont say when how does that help parents plan for the future?

I dont get any tax credits.
I just get child benefit.
I did think we would lose it as at tory conference when fisrt unveiled they say 42k was limit.

I also dident realise that each year the higher tax band changed so more and more people are being caught into paying 40%tax even husband thourght it was 40k its 35 lowering to 32k next year.

I fear that all these benefits for the wealthy and the welfare provision for the low paid mean the middle are sharing the burden more as the ones at top yes they paying but its small %of greater income if that makes sense.

where as we constant being tight with monthly budget, worrying about mot, and trying to work out ways to save when everythings going up and inflations not being controlled.

Some might say ajhh budgets are quite selfish everyone thinks its about them.

Its not about me as im on old scheme im angry for future people like me.

Im not hugely envious but do see some take advantage and cant cope without them im proud im raising my kids independently and somehow doubt if lived closer mum be much help she does my head in and reguarly rings me to say she misses her grandkids and im depriving her of time with them which im not as shes welcome to visit any time and openly says i see all the people up town with their grandkids and they mugs, I brought up my kids i have no intention of being doormat for my kids.

Mostly uses every excuse going. yet see my 80something neighbour picking up 1 from infants taking 2 to preschool and thinking ahh thats lovlely I enjoyed growing up in extended family maybe because my nan was the sane one.

As for the housing it wont help many 1st time buyers.

they still need to save 5%
he said subject to banks checks ie struct lending criteria and thiose with families be worse off as they do take into account childcare costs when considering affordability which somes huge where as a childless couple both working will stand a better chance as have less outgoings.

it might benefit wealthy families to buy holiday home in cornwall
wealthy families to buy their uni student some digs then rent out other rooms, buy to let or simply to move up the ladder as limits 600k buys something every nice and large in southwest.

The new builds shoe boxes be overpriced no real space they only seem to build executive homes here and benefit big business.
we have huge shortage of housing they wont build as that means house prices drop.

It should be 1st time buyers only.

Labour have no really financial plan other than to borrow more,They recently changed mind about 10p tax again"!
They ore intrested in protesting about bedroom tax than helping those in private rental sector.

I guess i may vote lib dem dont know.

I agree somethings need to change in uk but needs better ways to go about it.

Why are oaps excempt from bedroom tax when they biggest group of under occupiers.

why do they not their many benefits means tested as many have pensions, savings and property.

They want certain things but dont put provision in place.

Theres high unemployment and also underemployment.

Pushing people out to find non existant jobs.

cutting funding to charities that helped people.
ringfencing international aid and nhs.

I know its midterm blues but budget wa final straw its angered me.

ihategeorgeosborne Sat 23-Mar-13 21:12:37

I was shocked to see that there is a thread on here about people fancying George Osborne (vomit emoticon)

ihategeorgeosborne Sat 23-Mar-13 21:10:29

SPB grin I loathe the man and the rest of this millionaire cabinet. I promise I didn't vote for them either and this government have made me glad of that.

It doesn't help that I keep reading "I heart George Osborne" which makes the things you're saying need a second read. Plus I think, we'll even if you voted for them would you really advertise it like that smile

ihategeorgeosborne Sat 23-Mar-13 20:56:46

Now they're offering rich people the opportunity to buy second or third homes with tax payers money, whilst nicely pushing up house prices for them and their mates. All first time buyers want is to be able to buy an affordable home. This government is worst than the last and I never thought I'd say that in a hurry. The rich are definitely getting much richer. The rest of us definitely are not. I can't wait until 2015.

ihategeorgeosborne Sat 23-Mar-13 20:53:27

Too right SPB.

"I dont feel as if we all in it together."
No, and it makes you wonder if the govern,met think there is anyone out there who actually believes this! They're doing a good job pitting wohms against Sahms, strivers against shirkers, worthy disability vs fraudsters. Hyping it all up so we all hate a certain stereotype they've got us thinking is a huge problem while the very rich get quietly richer

janey68 Sat 23-Mar-13 20:18:11

Mam- just a couple of points. There is NO mileage in feeling envious of people who use family as free childcare. It often comes with disadvantages, just read MN for evidence of that, people moaning because granny feeds the kids a biscuit or lets them watch a bit of telly. Also, if you rely on family then you're up shit creek if they move, get ill or die, so it's a precarious existence if you need the money and count on freebies from family

Second- things are all relative aren't they? You see yourself as squeezed middle even though you're not working. Many people are so squeezed they can't even contemplate having one parent at home.

MummytoKatie Sat 23-Mar-13 20:07:25

Op - some of the things you have said make me wonder if you are really understanding what the changes mean?

Firstly - I don't think this is coming in until 2015 by which point your dc2 will definitely be at school and dc3 will either be at school or at a minimum will be getting the 15 free hours. So I don't think you are affected anyway.

However, assuming I'm wrong about this....

Secondly - how many hours a week is your dc2 doing at the moment? Is he doing more than 15? Because if it is just the 15 and dc3 hasn't yet started then can you not save the money you are not paying at the moment and put it towards when dc3 starts?

Thirdly - when your husband stops buying childcare vouchers his post-tax salary will go up. Presumably by about £112 a month as that is 70% of £160. (Does anyone know if childcare vouchers are per-tax and NI or just pre-tax?) so you will still have most of the cost of the one day a week you want.

So I really think you are worrying about nothing.

mam29 Sat 23-Mar-13 20:02:35

its more political anger and frustration not aimed at working mums I appreciate they do good job.

just so many shortsighted unfair policies.
A lot seem to lean in favour of very high earners.
I dont feel as if we all in it together.

The whole work hard and get on with failure to claifify exactly what they mean.

The big soceity long forgotton so my voluntary work does not count as contribution to the uk.

Not to mention im bringing up the little tax payers of future and ensuring they get good education to get good jobs and pay high taxes.

Its does feel like theres presies for the lowpiad cpuples.
pressies for the high paid
tough luck to those in the middle.

I voted tory.
I hate labour they made the whol nation dependent and entitled.
lib dems bit toothless
ukip agree some policies but bit racisist and no chance being in power.

I have tough choice at next election.

I dont think they understand us or many others.

I admit i was stupid when I was younger and ttc 1 i did belive I could have it all.

Now I know something has to give or you have to be fortunate

that have free family childcare
supportive employers
or other halfs work meshes well with yours.

I have freind ttc baby no 1
shes the higher earner she gets generous maternity pay compared to private sector, opportunity to do her role part time,more holidays.
her lazy arse husband also nhs earning 16k as a warehouse person and always on sick paid and moved 3miles down rd and gets relocation travel of 30quid a month and loads of holiday.
At moment they have comfy lifestye managed to buy house as parents gave her 10grand, go on couple holidaya abroad a year .
will be a real shock when baby arrives.

im grateful my husbands supportive and appreciates me we a team.
sometimes him in retail pays off he does some of school runs mix late and early shits means he does clubs.
he does his mothers shopping and errands for her on his day off too.

Glad to hear it

mam29 Sat 23-Mar-13 18:45:59

No im not massivly unhappy.

me and hubby accept they our kids we chose them, we fund them it is what it is.

I know when they all in school chances going back will be greater as yes they will need some childcare but the bulk of it in state is free.

I have allowed hubby to move companies increased his salary by being at home.

when we both worked for same company and had 1 child in nursery be both got abuse from our area managers when went to go get her or was sick and questioned our commitment.
My area manager even rang me up saying just had another area manager rin me up saying your husbands left his store early why is this and my response he had management cover I dident and was running a store on your area so tell the other area manager to do one its not the 1950s.

Maybe its because we worked same industry and company it was more obvious.

I was made to feel very crap going back, sidelined for promotion was horrid and our marriage began to suffer.

My eldest is still very much daddys girl as between ages 1-3 she was in nursery or with daddy most of time.

we were at diffrent points in career as he was older so higher up that me where as i was told I had to prove myself!
Hes always has been the higher earner.

I was speaking to mumat party today works fulltime 3primary kids .
last out 3going to school september and she said she will miss nursery hours.
she works week and had 3parties to attend this weekend as well as catch up on housework and shopping so do understand a working a parent still has all those things.

I have yet to see many state schools working parent freindly.
she said shes had problems getting holiday care for them as they different ages and her school does not offer it.
Yes there are clubs at her school but they first come first served.

Maybe I would be in better mood if they were not giving

5%tax breaks to 150k or over from april
if the cut off joint income was 6k then have no problem its the anomoly.

The old vouchers gave higher rate tax payers less relief and the new one offers low paid part time mums nothing and allows combined salaries above 60-k to 300k to subsidise their childcare.

I think both types of mum can have it hard depending on their income, support, childcare availaible in their area raising kids is hard work and expensive so such a pity to see so much negativity towards sahm.

Theres that saying lets not judge someone until they walked in their shoes.

They atlk about europe as good model for cheaper childcare ie lets redced rations here that will improve quality and lower parents bills but fail to emntion lot of sucessful european countries and scandanavia heavily subsidise their childcare.

maisiejoe123 Sat 23-Mar-13 18:35:55

Gaelic - I found the complete opposite. Going to school and paying for extended care and then using our normal childmidner in the hols worked very well for us.

What I found difficult in the early days when they were babies is getting out the front door with us both working but not unmanageable.

maisiejoe123 Sat 23-Mar-13 18:33:39

There is a lot of listing out of roles that SAMP's undertake and often great detail regarding situations that havent gone right for them.

Well, what makes you think that if you are working and need to take a child to the GP that things will go much more smoothly. SAHP's have the day to themselves but fgs - working parents have the same problems and we either have to juggle the situation within the family or pay someone to undertake something that we just cannot manage.

With regard to claiming childcare vouchers for SAHP's - well its like me claiming the disability allowance - completely unacceptable. I am not disabled and you dont need childcare - you are the childcarer!

OP you sound really unhappy with your life sad And I don't see any visciousness, but WOHMs are pointing out that doctor appointments, non uniform days, cake sales etc happen to them too.

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