to be disgusted with Nick Clegg

[NorthernLurker]

So now we know that our DEPUTY PRIME MINISTER knew he had a man involved at a senior level in his party who was rumoured to harass women and he failed to act but instead faciliatated a cover-up. Fabulous. What an example to the voters

[MarilynValentine]

Agreed. And I thought his popularity had already reached a nadir.

He should resign.

[sue52]

Most people were disgusted with Clegg before we knew about this cover up. There is no place lower for him to stoop to now.

[stormforce10]

I'm not happy with him either. However what was he supposed to do if all he had to go on was rumours? Imagine your husband coming home from work and saying that he was being subject to a major investigation and might lose his job as a result of rumours. I can just see the AIBU post.

AIBU to think that my DH is being treated appallingly by his boss. A couple of women at work dont like him so they're tryng to get him sacked by saying he made sexual approaches to them. He says he didnt do it and I believe him he'd never do a thing like that just not the type yet he's been suspended pending a major investigation and might lose his job. its his word against theirs and we're just so upset. etc. etc.

I'm not trying to defend Nick Clegg who probably should have investigated more diligently just trying to see it from his side.

[TheOriginalLadyFT]

Can't say I'm surprised at how this story has played out, it's the usual 'men defending men accused off abusing women' trope and it pisses me off intensely

Same old same old

[NorthernLurker]

Stormforce- they should have had a proper inquiry at the time of the 'rumours'. Then there could have been exoneration or appropriate disciplinary measures. instead the leadership were happy for this all to remain nebulous. Nobody should be convicted by rumour - but nobody should avoid a proper process either.

[EldritchCleavage]

I can see, sort of, why there was no formal investigation. But, but...in a well-run organisation that tries to be fair and also have an environment where no one is harassed and harassment is punished, people should not have ignored rumours, certainly not persistent ones.

The women would have had someone to talk to, or been approached and asked if they were ok (I have that role in my workplace: counsellor/recipient of complaints kind of thing. If someone told me rumours I would have to follow it up, if only to let a potential complainant know the grievance procedure and be a sounding board).

The man would have been spoken to, even if on a fairly non-committal basis to remind him of anti-harassment policy etc. (I genuinely think in my workplace the top man would do this. He is very good at 'iron fist in velvet glove' coded chats and a groper would get the message there was no cover-up going to be implemented by other men on his behalf. But I accept I'm probably very lucky in where I work).

It all gets the message across: we don't tolerate this kind of thing, if it is happening we will deal with it, please use official avenues rather than gossiping etc.

Instead it all seems to have been buried. Unless the women made formal complaints no one was at all interested.

[stormforce10]

Eldritch if Nick Cleggs statement is to be believed then Lord Rennard WAS spoken to to along the lines you suggest. It wasn't entirely left alone. Interesting that he resigned on health grounds so soon afterwards maybe more to that than initally met the eye

[EldritchCleavage]

Ah, ok. Well then I have some sympathy for NC (not often I say that).

[Scholes34]

Hmm, nice timing with the Eastleigh by-election coming up. Who has sat on this story for so long and who is now using it to their political advantage advantage?

[HorribleMother]

I don't like the idea of Presumed Guilty until Proven Innocent. The devil will be in the detail of what was said by who when to whom.

[edam]

Now the police are looking into it... Clegg has already shifted ground from first of all his office denying he knew anything about it at all until a few days ago to admitting he knew of vague rumours to admitting he knew something rather more but not 'specifics'.

Clearly there was something known about this, but everyone chose to ignore it in the hope it would go away (or that the women would shut the fuck up). Claims that he was persuaded to resign don't make it any better. That's what schools used to do in the dim and dark days, persuade the person accused to resign quietly - and often go on to do the same again at another school. Look at the tragic Frances Andrade case - it looks horribly like there were other victims and other abusers, as well.

Sadly I've seen similar at a former employer of mine - a national organisation that has a high reputation for ethics. Women who make complaints are fobbed off, not believed, treated badly, managed out, and the worst that happens to the person whose behaviour is in question is that they are allowed to resign but get a fat freelance contract. Or, in this case, are brought back into the fold after a period of quiet.

[NorthernLurker]

The Telegraph is reporting today that they sent specific allegations by e-mail and that 'Lord Greaves, a Lib Dem peer, suggested that ?people just calm down a bit? adding that ?fairly mild sexual advances? were ?hardly an offence?.' I wonder if he would feel the same if it were his wife or daughter? Or if he himself received 'fairly mild sexual advances' from a person in a position of authority and power?

here

[EldritchCleavage]

Northern, that Greaves statement's outrageous! 'Fairly mild sexual advances' to me would mean asking someone out or verbally expressing sexual interest in them, not putting your hands on them without their consent. Bloody hell! The more senior Lib Dems comment on this, the more we see how big a problem their party's got.

[kimorama]

The trick in politics is not to get caught. Clegg is accident prone; but cameron will be loving his problems. But \Lib dems could still win current by-elction (thurs)

[ppeatfruit]

I heard an interview with a young man yesterday on R4 who said that in the Tory Party all young people were sexually propositioned as a matter of course and the ones who 'complied' were the ones who became successful . THIS IS NOT A PARTY POLITICAL PROBLEM. It happens everywhere.

[zamantha]

Abuse scandals are of the moment - also agree, politically timed this one. Horrid women feel distressed/annoyed - horrid if chap is guilty or innocent.


Also know of teenager calling teacher a pervert recently - complete fabrication - we are role-modelling something rather horrid. Surely, tactful, discreet appropriate complaints and intervention are what are needed to allow people to feel they can talk freely.

[NorthernLurker]

I agree this kind of thing happens in every arena but it shouldn't. It isn't going to stop either if it's accepted as 'normal' or 'reasonable' and it isn't about sex or affection or admiration at all. It's about power and therefore the abuse of power.

False allegations are terrible of course - but that's all the more reason to have a pro-active policy of addressing any suggestion of an issue. We shouldn't be reading anywhere that any man thought it was ok to stroke a woman's bottom when he was not in a relationship with her, nor to lock two women in his home. We should be ensuring that boundaries are respected and that any breach of that is talked about and investigated and appropriate behaviour change made BEFORE somebody is seriously hurt.

[slug]

It always surprises me how seemingly intelligent people cannot draw inferences from disparate bits of data.

In the week where a senior political official was accused to have sexually harassed women including potential female candidates, and this report was published. Where we learnt that the police pressured a rape victim to retract her claim against a man who subsequently murdered his children. In the months after the Saville case when we discovered that the mass of witnesses was dismissed as being the word of just the women. Where a murder victim is pictured in her bikini on the front page of a national paper.

Do they not join the dots? Can they not see that there is a pattern here? Yet they always seem so surprised.

[LineRunner]

Chris Rennard in his denials that he did anything wrong seems to be accusing a number of intelligent, credible women of lying. Interesting tactic. Clegg must be stewing over that one.

An awful lot of very senior Lib Dems seem to have known something - and it looks like they didn't really care that much, because they are denying they got rid of Rennard over it. Again, an interesting tactic, that they might regret.

Rennard has been so powerful in the Lib Dem Party it nominated him for a peerage in his late 30s, and Rennard probably has loads of dirt on many MPs and other senior Lib Dems.

It says a lot about political largesse - and it happens in Labour and the Tories, too.

[dotnet]

I don't think YABU to be disgusted with Nick Clegg. This is the man who shafted our students, is now saying he would 'consider' putting his child through the same elitist schooling he had himself and now it seems he didn't act nearly firmly enough about concerns raised by women MPs about Lord Rennard.
Yellow outside but blue inside.

[amothersplaceisinthewrong]

Nick Clegg is utterly untrustworthy. I don't trust a word that comes out of his mouth. He needs to go.

[AnAirOfHope]

Sheffield voted him in and it will not happen again. He fucked students over and its mostly labour in south yorks anyway.

Everyone is talking about how they will be voting him out at the next election.

[edam]

Slug, that story about the rape victim(s) being bullied by the police into withdrawing allegations is horrifying. And not the first outrageous story about Sapphire - at least two detectives were being sacked/prosecuted last time I saw Sapphire coming up in the news.

And yet on the thread about yet another stupid proposal bring in anonymity for men accused of rape, some numpty had turned up to have a go at the We Believe You campaign and there was a poster saying 'oh, but there's all these specialist rape services these days, women don't need anonymity...'

[ppeatfruit]

Erm it's NOT a party political issue, did anyone read my post? Sexual harrassment of women AND men happens everywhere.

[zamantha]

Is a roasting in the press appropriate for all?

Not a catholic, - non-religious - but Cardinal O'Brien does not know what he is accused of or who is accusing him. Is the castigation of the world appropriate at this stage?

There seems to be no middle ground between harrassment and abuse - all deemed the same in media and seemingly in people reading this. Shouldn't we look at adult behaviour in a balanced, proportionate way?