To believe that you are innocent until found guilty in court

(124 Posts)

Very sad to find that so many people think that if charged with child abuse someone is guilty.

The words child abuse make us all go cold and I am the first to think death is to good. However it gets like a witch hunt ever time someone is accused.

I say change the law to make only those found guilty put all over the press.

I have a relative accused at present and waiting to go to court. In our case so much local support from friends and relatives but not everyone has that. (The accuser is the one who has spread it about where we live, not us).

I know people feel they would want to now but surely you only let people you trust around your children.

If charged people can not work with kids and it is normal for bail to include not being around/alone with under 16s.

Andro Sat 16-Feb-13 23:18:02

The problem with sexual abuse type cases is that mud stick - irrespective of the verdict/dismissal. The damage done, both to the accused and their family, is often irreparable. For that reason I have the often criticised opinion that the accused should have the right to anonymity (with neither the accused, accuser nor anyone involved being permitted to spread names) until the verdict is handed down - anonymity lifted if the verdict is guilty.

WorraLiberty Sat 16-Feb-13 23:20:38

I don't think anyone should be named and shamed unless proven guilty in court.

Too many lives are often ruined by public accusations...and not just the lives of the accused.

GinAndT0nic Sat 16-Feb-13 23:22:14

innocent until proven guilty means that the punishment won't be meted out though. it doesn't mean that people have no right to react (conversationally) to what appears to have happened. I would have some trust in the police that if they take somebody into questioning for sex abuse, they have reason to suspect and I would want to let the police get on with that job first and foremost before saying innocent until proven guilty. if found innocent, suspect is released.

KarlosKKrinkelbeim Sat 16-Feb-13 23:22:52

Flogging this horse again?
I've yet to see anything charged which is something I would do with my or friends' children. Rather worrying admission, that.
I'd give up on this if I were you.

steppemum Sat 16-Feb-13 23:23:14

I agree andro.

It isn't always easy to keep the accuser quiet though. (and as they are the victim - or victims parents- they may feel they have the right to speak to who they like)
In the case I mentioned, he went down quickly for a related crime, but it took police nearly a year to arrest him for abuse which was the reason the investigation started in the first place. So as he hadn't been charged, would everyone have to keep quiet? Or only once it is sub-judicy?

FamiliesShareGerms Sat 16-Feb-13 23:24:44

I agree with the anonymity suggestions. But in reality, if say a teacher is suspended from work pending a prosecution for something inappropriate with a pupil, word soon gets round, even if they are ultimately completely exonerated

Narked Sat 16-Feb-13 23:25:00

This poster's whole posting history is about their relative being charged with the sexual abuse of a child.

AgentZigzag Sat 16-Feb-13 23:26:42

Was that a typo when you said 'she' in 'Not read statements she made so don't no details', that this is a female relative who's been accused of 'child abuse'.

From my understanding in present day rape or child abuse cases it is had to get them to court and even harder to get a guilty verdict.

With historical abuse the cps does not need to have as much evidence to go to court. Just a accuser and someone saying they told them at the time will do.

Historical abuse cases have a much much high rate of conviction than resent cases.

AgentZigzag Sat 16-Feb-13 23:28:21

Ah, Narked.

Someone genuinely trying to get their heads round something, possibly?

poppypebble Sat 16-Feb-13 23:28:39

I was raped. My rapist was caught and charged, but the CPS were not sure they would secure a conviction. After his name and picture appeared in the local paper 3 more women came forward who had been attacked by him in the same circumstances. If he'd have had anonymity those women may never have had the justice they deserved, and I might very well have found myself branded a fantasist in court.

Andro Sat 16-Feb-13 23:29:48

FamiliesShareGerms - and by the time they're completely exonerated, their reputation has been destroyed (along with their authority in the classroom).

KarlosKKrinkelbeim Sat 16-Feb-13 23:30:46

Message deleted by Mumsnet for breaking our Talk Guidelines. Replies may also be deleted.

Narked I'm not sure why that's relevant to the discussion.

poppy makes a good point. I've been on both sides of the situation - I was raped (he wasn't even interviewed by the police) and someone close to me was falsely accused of rape. Tbh I think that the accused should have anonymity at least until charged, but that assumes that the system works properly. Which it doesn't.

That is a very valid point poppypeddle not one I have spent anytime thinking about but will now.

I suppose I am looking at this from the side her being extended family rather than two stranges or a care home etc...

No answer really is there.................?

OTTMummA Sat 16-Feb-13 23:36:04

What will you do if your relative is found guilty?
I find your posts disturbing tbh.
What exactly are you trying to achieve?

Narked Sat 16-Feb-13 23:40:14

Perhaps because the OP keeps dropping details of an ongoing sexual abuse case into threads?

FamiliesShareGerms Sat 16-Feb-13 23:41:49

Indeed, Andro

hippo123 Sat 16-Feb-13 23:43:15

Surely if they are charged there is evidence against them which the police / courts believe will lead to a conviction when taken to court? Sadly many people report abuse / rape yet the evidence isn't alwaye there to prosecute ( any
surviours don't let this put you off reporting as it will always remine on their file). As to only letting people you trust around your children, I'm sure most parents would agree with that, however sadly many such abusers have almost groomed the parents as well, or the children very well. My half brother sexually abused me for years without any of my family knowing, despite being close. He was imprisoned.

Lockedout434 Sat 16-Feb-13 23:43:46

Chris huhne protested his innocence until the 11th hour. For months he denied , ridiculed his wife and protested how innocent he was.
Jonathan aitkin had a sword if truth and a sheild of justice. They lied and lied and lied.
They were both castigated lost everything and held upto public ridicule , whereas roman Polanski ( 13 year old???) feted and looked after
People should be named it may help people join the dots.
Child abuse is the same as murder, if you are accused of murder it would still follow you around

poppypebble Sat 16-Feb-13 23:44:12

The other women raped by my rapist had been too frightened to report what had happened, they didn't think they would be believed and they believed his threats. To be completely honest had I been in a fit state to choose I don't think I would have reported it - but I was carted off to hospital in an ambulance as he damaged me just a bit too much and the people who found me thought I was dead. There was DNA evidence but he calmly sat in an interview room and said it had been consensual sex and that I'd asked him to be 'rough'. When the other women saw that he had been charged they felt like they would be believed and therefore came forward.

He did plead not guilty but the evidence of four women proved overwhelming in the end.

Casmama Sat 16-Feb-13 23:45:42

I could almost understand where you were moving from until I read the monumentally stupid:
"I know people feel they would want to know but surely you only let people you trust around your children"

Because human judgement is infallible isn't it, all we need o do is only let trustworthy people around our children and child abuse would disappear overnight hmm

Not really trying to achieve anything.

This is my life at the moment. Once a family member is accused this is your life. There is no support groups for families of accused and I have shut up fo nearly a year.

My children have been interviewed and schools spoken too. My life is a mess. Everyone from social services, school, friends and family have been great. But I have a hateful person making it sound like the whole family are child molesters to anyone who will listen. I am a bit upset really.

If I can't have a voice here then what is the internet for. I am allow a voice!

SirBoobAlot Sat 16-Feb-13 23:47:40

On the other side of this, something horrific happened to someone I know. We know who did it. Everyone knows this individual did it. Lives have been torn apart, completely shattered, and this bastard is wandering around without a care in the world before their court date.

Innocent until proven guilty, maybe, but there should be a "you are a dangerous sick fucker, we know you did it, and you are going to pay" option within that.

Andro Sat 16-Feb-13 23:51:08

Lockedout434 - and how do you propose that the accused deals with the fall out from an allegation proven to be malicious (and it does happen, false rape allegations etc)? People tend to forget that the malicious accuser may have been tried and punished...they don't forget the original allegation after it's been splattered across the local media! What about the person's wife? Children?

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