To not give a damn if the Labour Party...

(356 Posts)
slatternlymother Thu 31-Jan-13 18:42:56

Give away free flat screen TV's and a £500 Next gift card to everyone claiming benefits.

I don't care if they say 'fuck it, free immigration to everyone, we'll let anyone in'

I don't care if they spend 4 jillion pounds on a statue of Ghandi.

Just as long as the Conservatives don't get in again. They are fucking evil, aren't they?

bastards. Fucking bastards

I don't want to live in a country like this anymore sad

Iggly Mon 04-Feb-13 21:34:42

What makes you think I'm a leftie wink

LittleTyga Mon 04-Feb-13 22:32:39

I'll talk to you about cuts - we are as a nation spending more than we are raising in tax.

- Bring in the Robin Hood Tax
- Get huge International companies to pay more taxes
-close the loopholes and tax havens where billions of UK Tax money is languishing in an off shore accounts.

- Start building council houses for working families to live in paying a rent that is affordable for a family to live in. Lowering the Housing Benefit bill

- Higher wages. When IDS said 'Work Must Pay' I thought great! Wages will go up - NO Benefits come down! Tut Tut. Tax Credits go through the roof! If a family are getting £100 of Tax credits a month surely their employer could pay that? not the tax Payer?

The biggest part of the SS budget is pensions. Lets look at that shall we?

Sort all that out then we'll talk about cuts.

dreamingofsun Tue 05-Feb-13 08:57:32

little - perhaps you could answer a question ref wages i'v asked many times on MN and noone ever responds to. If the wages of the lowest paid go up in an organisation the people above them in the pay scale are going to want to keep that differential. Otherwise the company will find it hard to recruit at the higher level - people will do the lower responsibility jobs for the same pay.

And this will be reflected right up the pay scale. Supervisors will want more pay than the people who work for them.

This will result in inflation. Everything will cost more, so your increased pay will go on increased costs.

How do you propose stopping this happening?

CelticPromise Tue 05-Feb-13 09:41:59

Dreaming I haven't got time to look for hard figures but I'm sure I've read that the pay ratio from top to bottom is much bigger than it ever is, also some companies work with a lower one so it can be done.

I can't imagine thinking that I am worth x times more than those on NMWn so my earnings should go up accordingly- it's never even occurred to me.

Otherwise perhaps the people on the middle levels can be told to suck it up as those at the bottom are told?? It's ridiculous that companies that don't pay a living wage are effectively subsidised by the government to pay the workforce they need to make a profit.

CelticPromise Tue 05-Feb-13 09:42:29

bigger than it ever was sorry

allgoingtoshitnow Tue 05-Feb-13 10:52:37

Companies are subsidised by government because if not they will fuck off to China.

The reason why those at the top have got richer and those at the bottom poorer is because those at the top still have value while those at the bottom increasingly dont. The bottom (specifically NMW UK) are no longer an essential part of the machine. NMW China will do the job just as well, with less whining, and a lot cheaper.

In fact we dont have to go that far. NMW Poland or NMW Romania will come here and do the job so no need to even relocate the factories.

The UK workforce needs a firm kick up the behind. The Tories are getting everything into line so they can deliver it after watching in disgust as Labour hid our problems behind cheap credit and massive benefit payments. If you think the cuts are bad, wait till after 2015 when the Tories win a majority. The changes needed in this country havent even started, and Labour know it too - they wont reverse a thing.

dreamingofsun Tue 05-Feb-13 11:10:52

celtic - the company i work for has had an ongoing problem recruiting junior managers because the pay increase is so small and they no longer get overtime. Reduce that differential and the problem would only get worse. I have already sucked up no pay increase for the last 8 years, there's no way i'd suck up someone with less stress and responsibility earning the same as me. Its human nature.

allgoing - agree. And it was labour that welcomed the Polish and Romanians thus increasing the supply of people willing to work for NMW.

LittleTyga Tue 05-Feb-13 12:46:45

^This will result in inflation. Everything will cost more, so your increased pay will go on increased costs.

How do you propose stopping this happening?^

Reducing company profits - how can it be right that Tesco for instance can make Millions in profit but don't pay their staff an adequate wage?

And as an aside Labour did not welcome the Polish and Romanians - they had No choice we are part of Europe and our borders are open - Cameron will be doing the same thing in the New Year when the next arrivals descend from Bulgaria and Romania is it? on 1st Jan 2014. But yes this influx of cheap labour drives down salaries too sad

GiveMeSomeSpace Tue 05-Feb-13 13:05:14

LittleTyga re Tesco - It may not be fair, but it's what EVERYONE with a pension contributes to. Do you have a pension? If so do you know where your pension assets are invested? 99% of pension holders will not have a clue where they are invested, but a lot will still rant about horrible companies doing horrible things.

Anyone that has a pension will be a shareholder in Tesco and by demanding higher pension returns, all those pension holders are demamding those firms to be more profitable.

Yet again, it's easy to blame everyone else because it makes us feel better about ourselves.

CelticPromise Tue 05-Feb-13 13:22:35

AllGoing you are aware that NMW workers are people aren't you? with families, homes, needs to meet etc? Because the way you speak about them isn't very nice.

it's interesting the way the markets and global economic system are seen as a natural phenomenon that we can't do anything about but must feed the the beast. Since we have set up a system to manage and move money and encourage economic activity, my view is that if it isn't working for a large number of people eg the working poor, we need to change the system, not appease it at the expense of actual humans.

CelticPromise Tue 05-Feb-13 13:25:51

dreaming is the company profitable? If our can't attract workers that would indicate it is not paying market rates. If it needs to increase pay for the junior managers, that doesn't mean it shouldn't also pay a living wage to the basic earners. Your point is a good example of how workers look at each other and compare instead of looking at those who are really screwing them.

Skittish Tue 05-Feb-13 13:30:21

All this highlights just how vital it is to work hard at school/college, get skills, get a job - any job - get qualified and work your socks off.

Hopefully then, you won't have to do NMW jobs all your life.

CelticPromise Tue 05-Feb-13 13:38:08

But Skittish plenty of NMW jobs are absolutely vital. think of elderly care, would you like to be looked after by someone marking time until they can get something better or someone who wants to do the job, is qualified properly and can take care of their family on the wage?

We've got it completely wrong, the way we value a lot of work.

Skittish Tue 05-Feb-13 13:42:34

Yes, I agree actually. I would pay the full time working poor far more and make benefits and part time work far less financially attractive.

I have utmost respect for people working full time in low paid jobs.

But until those people are far better off financially than their non working neighbours there will always be high unemployment.

allgoingtoshitnow Tue 05-Feb-13 14:49:40

"Reducing company profits - how can it be right that Tesco for instance can make Millions in profit but don't pay their staff an adequate wage? "

They are being paid an adequate wage. They are shelf stackers!

I cant help with peoples delusions of grandeur but I can give advice on people spending within their means.

There are some NMW jobs that should be paid more, and this has happened because employers know workers are topped up with Browns tax credits, and that they have 200 applicants per job.

Oh and the control of European immigration under Labour was entirely controllable, just as they controlled it in most other popular countries. Labour just chose not to do so because they knew the Right were against it and they needed slave labour in the economy. Now their own voters cant get jobs. Fucking muppets.

CelticPromise Tue 05-Feb-13 15:05:59

An adequate wage is a living wage. How can you criticise people for finding life better on benefits if they can't feed their family on full time pay?

allgoingtoshitnow Tue 05-Feb-13 15:24:07

Living wage - that old chestnut. More money paid out means everything becomes more expensive and we are back to the same point, but now everyone is poorer except those on ever increasing benefits.

NMW was a living wage until tax credits went mad. It will become a living wage again when they are pinned back (in UC form) and hopefully removed from all except the most vulnerable. It was nice to feel well off for a time as we spent all that borrowed cash, but we're not really well off at all as a country today.

CelticPromise Tue 05-Feb-13 15:35:33

How will NMW become a living wage again (not that I believe it ever was)? It's not just tax credits, it's housing benefit and others too. Are housing costs going to come down? Of course not.

lazybastard Tue 05-Feb-13 19:07:39

Oh I'm not worth anything? Thank you very much how very kind of you. Tell me please when did I stop being a human being?

BTW I did stick in at school and get qualifications then got more, fat lot of use they have been. Then when I try and retrain to avoid a whole life on NMW I am accused of being selfish and getting above my station. Can't have it both ways you know.

NicholasTeakozy Tue 05-Feb-13 20:35:41

Wages have shrunk in the last twenty years. As an example, in 1992/3 I worked as a press operator supplying the motor industry. My hourly rate was £6.92 plus 17.5% shift allowance (if we worked shifts, which we did most of the time), so £8.13ph. The same job now, at the same site is £6.19ph. A friend who is a supervisor/setter is only just earning a few pence more per hour now than I did for less responsibility twenty years ago.

LittleTyga Tue 05-Feb-13 22:23:03

That's right Nicholas - I work in recruitment and I'm working on the same salaries as I did 20 years ago.

lazybastard Tue 05-Feb-13 23:57:49

Allgo you quite clearly haven't a clue what it is like to end up on benefits. You are not rich, it is stressful and humiliating. I have had stressful jobs in the past and my current job can be quite stressful but nothing compares with the stress of being on benefits. Or the pain of ending up on benefits, it actually starts to hurt when you haven't eaten for over 36 hrs.

ProtegeMoi Wed 06-Feb-13 02:08:28

I am another who would never vote Tory after what they are doing to the disabled.

Yes we are in a recession, yes we need to cut back, yes SOME people can't be bothered to work but cutting services, funding and benefits for those living with severe lifetime disabilities is beyond anything I can understand.

The very people that should be looked after, the reason why a safety net should exist. It isn't the false benefit claimants being targeted its the vulnerable disabled people and their carers.

GiveMeSomeSpace Wed 06-Feb-13 09:24:53

Again - Calling LittleTyga - do you have a pension?

allgoingtoshitnow Wed 06-Feb-13 09:44:11

"Wages have shrunk in the last twenty years"

Yes they have and they will shrink a lot further yet until we can compete globally. (or until a party gets into power and closes our borders to globalisation)

This doesnt mean the taxpayer should top up the difference.

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