Is this fair or are school BU?

(89 Posts)
M0naLisa Fri 25-Jan-13 08:30:35

At the end of each term 'good' children in school get to attend something called a 'no stage' party.

In each class there is a happy face and a sad face on the whiteboards.

Children who have been naughty go on sad face
Children who are good and do things extra special like helping with tidying and been friendly get to go on happy face.

Those children during the term that have been on sad face are denied an invitation to the no stage party. They have to sit in class and do work.

My 4yr old was put on sad face on Monday for talking when teacher was talking.

Now he's upset that he won't be able to go to the party that his friends and brother will be going to.

Is this being harsh for 4yr olds? Or reasonable?

hmm

Too harsh, although, did he merely forget not to talk and talked the second time on the carpet or did he purposely disobey her?
My gut feeling, seeing as he is only four, is on the former and as such the punishment is way to hard.
How do other parents feel about it?

Because it strikes me, particularly for the older children, that if they get put on the sad face and banned from the party at the start of the half term there is no incentive to remain good for the rest of the term as they are banned from the party regardless. So this behaviour management policy seems utterly ill-thought out!

M0naLisa Mon 28-Jan-13 16:50:23

Still think its harsh for reception kids. Maybe from yr 1 have a one strike an your out but not reception

M0naLisa Mon 28-Jan-13 16:49:58

She said a few would not be attending and it woul be a normal day for the ones not attending.

piratecat Mon 28-Jan-13 16:43:40

incredibly crap.

I would speak to the head, as i am not sure there would be many kids at the party.

M0naLisa Mon 28-Jan-13 16:42:08

He talked twice whilst on the carpet. She told him once and put him on the sad face.

There must be more to this.
I work in a primary school (TA) and before that put in quite a few hours as a volunteer. I just cannot imagine any teacher / school being this harsh at such a young age and exclude a young child for one incident of talking.

I will be very sad if this is indeed the case and would be considering if this is the right place for my child.

But, again, I just cannot see this as being all there is to it...

CloudsAndTrees Mon 28-Jan-13 16:29:36

Did she say anything else? Did she tell you that she had warned your son before he was put under the sad face, or that she has had to tell him off on enough other occasions prior to this one?

M0naLisa Mon 28-Jan-13 16:26:54

The thing is the sad face list is wiped every day at the end of the day ready for a clean sad face the next day. I'm guessing its wrote down in a book who has been on the sad face over the term and given to the head teacher.

Spoke to ds2 teacher today and she confirmed he will NOT receive an invitation for the party at end of term in February because of this one incident of talking!!!

nitsparty Sun 27-Jan-13 10:01:12

imo it seems to long to wait- r u sure one sad face dooms you for the whole term? sanctions need to happen much quicker. he could talk on the carpet every day now-what has he got to lose?
speaking as a teacher it's harder and harder to reprimand a child. A stern voice is seen as "Miss shouted at me" and will bring an angry parent to your classroom door.
A colleague was accused of calling a child a name. The name was "chatterbox"

CloudsAndTrees Sun 27-Jan-13 09:47:08

is it good for a child to always be good

I don't think so. Not if it's always.

In my experience young school or older pre school children who never talk when they shouldn't, never take longer doing anything than they are supposed to, never make a mess etc, are the children who appear to be anxious quite a lot of the time.

There have even been times when working with these young children that we have been really pleased to see a child 'misbehave'. They tend to be the children whose parents put a lot of pressure on them to be 'good' all the time, or ocassionaly they have been children with mild SEN who have found it hard to settle into school environments.

MariusEarlobe Sun 27-Jan-13 09:28:13

I've known schools do this weekly and children who have too many have less or no free play.

Half termly is crazy, most kids won't remember what they have done and don't most children have an odd time they have been told off.

Even dd who is goody goody at school has been told off on rare occassion.

littlemrssleepy Sun 27-Jan-13 09:26:56

Does seem a little harsh - I agree that the transgression is better punished more immediately and then forgotten / reset. Imagine if I stayed angry with DH for 6 WEEKS that he had a little too much to drink the night before it was my turn for a precious lie in and I ended up getting up whilst he had a long conversation on the porcelain toilet.

Also just a question - is it good for a child to always be good?? Smacks of someone who is so in awe of someone in a position of authority that they will bow to anything and really fear disappointing them. I doubt it will do them any good in the long run. I know neither I nor DH would have got where we are without being able to challenge authority. I know it's different when you are a child because you don't have the skills to do it more tactfully but I'm not sure I would that thrilled if my DS got through an entire term without doing it once!!! Rebel without a cause

TheCarefulLaundress Sun 27-Jan-13 08:48:15

All this talk about punishing young children is giving me the creeps.

jamdonut Sat 26-Jan-13 14:41:07

So ,OP, by keeping him off school you're teaching him what, exactly?

That it doesn't matter if he does things wrong at school, because Mummy and Daddy will treat him anyway?

Just because his friends and older brother have managed to behave well during the term, it's not fair to have a "party" that he can't attend?

Perhaps, next term, he WILL remember not to talk when the teacher is talking, and keep it up all term so that he WILL go to the next "party". Who knows, maybe his friends or brother will miss out next time. Will that be OK then?

This makes me mad. The number of times we tell parents that their children have been dreadful all day, and ,as they are walking away you hear the child say "Can I have ice cream" and the parent says "OK!" or the parents are giving them bars of chocolate,etc. as they walk away... The message there is, "That's ok, you've been badly behaved, but I will reward you anyway".

And 4 is not too young to learn this lesson.

Ours have a weekly competition. They're grouped in tables and awarded points for good behaviour and doing well at work. Table with the most points on Friday gets a prize from as lucky dip bag (pencils, rubbers, etc) but the whole room (3 classes) gets sweets and a movie.

Seems to work really well.

I know for a fact ds1 could never manage as whole half term of impeccable behaviour so the system you've described would be a disaster. On our system he gets rewards for his work though, so although his behaviour isn't perfect he knows if he does his work well he can earn points for his table.

Emilythornesbff Sat 26-Jan-13 12:32:23

Seems a bit harsh and out of step with the current trend for a more positive approach to behavioural management.
I am dreading school for DS already. There are so many things that piss me off about it.
Can you encourage your ds in the ways of getting back on track so he feels he has some co trol over the situation and can "win" back his smiley face.
Poor sausage.

CloudsAndTrees Sat 26-Jan-13 12:28:38

I agree it's good for the children who are always well behaved to be recognised. In fact it's better than good, it's actually very important.

It's all too easy for the well behaved children to be forgotten, especially as they tend to receive less attention on a day to day basis than the more talkative children.

TiggyD Sat 26-Jan-13 11:40:36

Doesn't sound good.

Firstly, the punishment takes place a long time from the offence when the offence would be forgotten.
Secondly, every day when the names are put on the faces he will be reminded that he failed in something. I do not think 2 months of that is terribly good for a child.
Thirdly, once a child is a failure why should they avoid the sad face in the future?

socharlotte Sat 26-Jan-13 11:22:18

I think it is good that the children who are always good get recognised.I am betting that there are interim rewards like star of the day and golden time as well

JenaiMorris Sat 26-Jan-13 11:09:15

It's a horrible, spiteful system and I doubt it works.

Littlefish Sat 26-Jan-13 11:01:45

I very much doubt this was a single incident of talking when the teacher was talking, if children are usually put on the sad side for more serious misdemeanours. It is far more likely that he had received reminders and warnings over a period of time, with the final warning being that if it happened again, he would be moved onto the sad side.

You really do need to speak to the classteacher to find out what has actually happened.

magicOC Sat 26-Jan-13 10:37:03

Our school does 30 mins of golden time every Friday, they get to watch a dvd, play games or whatever (disco last week) smile

Misbehaviour = a minute of golden time taken away for each offence. It just means that everyone unless very badly behaved gets some golden time depending on how many minutes they have left.

At the end of each term, cups are awarded for various achievements including behaviour.

Lovelygoldboots Sat 26-Jan-13 09:55:38

I would talk to the head about your concerns. If you and the school are at cross purposes about disclipline at this early stage it will only get harder. You will not get to the bottom of it unless you get clear facts from the person responsible for maintaining discipline.

LeeCoakley Sat 26-Jan-13 09:48:47

There are plenty of children (at our infant school anyway) who would get to attend this party. And as op says, her children attended last term. And MN is full of parents who tell us that their 'unnoticed' child never gets any reward. Well this is one school's answer to that! The party will only be a small part of the behaviour strategy, otherwise where is the incentive after the first sad face? All schools will try new strategies and if something doesn't appear to improve behaviour overall it will die a natural death. Imagine actually finding something that works perfectly for over 200 wildly different individuals! (AND universally liked by all the parents grin.)

I wouldn't agree with keeping off school though.

CloudsAndTrees Sat 26-Jan-13 09:28:21

While the school are being way too harsh with their punishment for a four year old, and I very much don't agree with your son being denied the chance to go to the party just for one incident of talking, I think your idea of keeping him off school that day and having your own party is taking it far too far in the opposite direction.

Do you really want to send the message to your child that you disrespect the school rules and that he should be entitled to a day off and a party because the people who teach him are wrong?

I think that's just as bad a message to give him tbh. It will just confuse him and give him even less of an incentive to behave if you are going to over rule the school anyway.

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