To think my ds dies not need a 'bloody good hiding'

(179 Posts)
mamasmissionimpossible Sat 05-Jan-13 21:24:04

So I'm staying at parents as we are having our home redecorated before a move.

My ds is 7. He came home from a party today and was being aggressive (hiting the walls)and calling me names. my parents overhear all this.

I want to discipline without smacking as I just don't see it as a useful method if discipline. My father doesn't agree and says if ds did this behaviour with him in charge he would give him ' a bloody good hiding'. I feel so upset he could do that and know it wouldn't work long term. Df thinks he will be a delinquent teen with the behaviour he us showing.

After ds calmed down. He apologised to me (without prompting) and I explained why his behaviour was unacceptable.

Just looking for reassurance from mn that I don't need to use physical discipline to get him to behave.

I found out after the event that he hadn't had any tea at the party, which often has a negative effect on his behaviour.

bickie Tue 08-Jan-13 22:47:23

I was smacked occasionally by my dm - and she is the loveliest mum in the world - she just used it to discipline. But i do still feel guilty if i hear a spoon drawer rattling as i think - here comes the wooden spoon! I wasn't at all against giving my dc a light smack on the bottom if they had lost control. It doesn't hurt - it signals to them they have gone too far. They were well behaved on the whole so not a lot of need for it. It works to get the message across and I don't believe for a minute is damaging. But I can understand why others decide not to do it. But I do hate un-disciplined children - and there are a lot of them around.

RandallPinkFloyd Tue 08-Jan-13 22:18:45

Absolutely, I'm playing devil's advocate I know but maybe he was told of the consequence straight away. Maybe it was "stop that right now, that is absolutely unacceptable, no story for you tonight" or something along those lines.

Maybe it was completely woolly and ineffectual and he doesn't give two hoots about a story.

I don't know, none of us do, I will never agree that she should have hit him though.

That is a fair point, Randall, but it does sound as if there was no immediate action from the OP, or immediate consequences for her ds, and I do think that, at that age, and in those circumstances, something immediate was needed - to stop the behaviour, to show the OP's father that the OP wa dealing with what the boy was doing, and to give the boy a warning and a chance to calm down.

RandallPinkFloyd Tue 08-Jan-13 19:49:48

Tbh I don't think any of us can judge whether the op's consequences were sufficient or not. We don't know her son so we have no idea how much he values his bedtime story.

The was a poster earlier who said that to lose her bedtime story would be the worst punishment she could imagine. Much worse than a time-out or hitting her.

It may not be something that would have meant anything to you or to your children but that doesn't mean it wasn't appropriate for someone else.

Regarding the OP - if the OP does not want to smack, that is her decision, and her parents should respect that. But bad behaviour of the type described in the OP does need to be dealt with swiftly and firmly at the time - and I don't think losing the bedtime story was a sufficient consequence for the boy's actions.

In the OP's place, I would first have got hold of the boy and stopped him from kicking the walls, and would have told him clearly and firmly that his behaviour was unacceptable and if it didn't stop, he'd be in 'time out', and then I would have followed through on that if he didn't calm down.

I sometimes used smacking as one of the discipline tools available to me. I also used time outs, removal so certain toys or privileges, stern talkings-to, and lines amongst others.

People have asked why anyone would WANT to hit a child - I would say that I didn't want to do it, but did it because it worked. I believe that a single smack that is painful for an instant, acts as a short, sharp shock that stops certain behaviour in its tracks.

My boys are now 15, 17 and 19, and are reasonably well-behaved, law abiding members of society, and we are a close, affectionate, loving family. None of the boys, who are all articulate and well able to express themselves to us, have ever expressed any resentment or ill feeling towards either dh or I for smacking them when they were little.

So - that makes me an evil, lazy, out of control bully.

BartletForTeamGB Tue 08-Jan-13 18:14:32

"Bartlet.

If its such nonsense would you like to deal with him next time?"

It is nonsense that you can claim that all his problems are due to being smacked as child! That has nothing to do with how you deal with him and is just a straw man argument from you.

IneedAsockamnesty Tue 08-Jan-13 17:52:37

Not at all alis, but I can totally understand why you thought I did, I should have said that this thread reminded me of a conversation I had with him.

cory Tue 08-Jan-13 17:51:19

Not sure about the "children are so badly behaved because of lack of smacking".

I grew up in Sweden where smacking was already considered outdated in the 60s (and banned in the 90s) and I do not have the impression that the problems with badly behaved children was in any way worse there than in the UK at the same time: my mother (a teacher) used to read with horror articles about misbehaviour in British schools.

Otoh both Swedish and British parents and teachers complain bitterly about worsening of behaviour in the last 20 years or so. Looks like it wasn't the smacking thing that was to blame, then...

In my own experience the worst behaved children I have known have not been the ones that have not been smacked but the ones that have lived in a constant atmosphere of shouting and smacking.

Alisvolatpropiis Tue 08-Jan-13 17:44:26

Oh okay Sockreturningpixie , I was horrified that you might think that of me! Because that's not me at all!

Though as I have said,I was occasionally smacked as a child,I really can't say whether I would smack a child of my own (don't yet have any).I think attitudes have changed a lot in the years even since I was a young child (early 1990's).

IneedAsockamnesty Tue 08-Jan-13 17:42:16

Bartlet.

If its such nonsense would you like to deal with him next time?

SirBoobAlot Tue 08-Jan-13 17:15:53

And as for the ''It has obviously affected you, but I am fine"... You smack your child. You think you are fine.

But how do you know your child will react like you to it?

You don't. If you smack your child, you run the risk of it having the affect on them it had on me, and on many others. Violence in the family home, to whatever degree, is a key trigger for numerous mental health issues.

Ephiny Tue 08-Jan-13 17:12:22

I think it's up to parents whether they choose to smack or not, so YANBU if you don't want to (though I can see your dad's point of view, and probably would have thought the same thing myself, though I wouldn't have said it out loud). But you're not doing him any favours by being so soft on bad behaviour.

If he behaves like that at school, I doubt they'll excuse it by saying he must have been 'hungry' hmm.

SirBoobAlot Tue 08-Jan-13 17:12:22

I'd argue that anyone who says "I was smacked, it hasn't done me any harm", and thinks it is perfectly acceptable to hurt a child isn't as fine as they would like to convince themselves they are.

RandallPinkFloyd Tue 08-Jan-13 17:10:14

But why would you want to hit a child?

It's a simple question yet nobody's answered it. There's been lots of talk about it "not doing any harm" and it being "good discipline" but no answer fom the parent's point of view.

In a simple sentence, why would you intentionally cause a child pain?

Hullygully Tue 08-Jan-13 16:54:34

SPARE THE ROD

CHASTISE THE LAMB

BartletForTeamGB Tue 08-Jan-13 16:53:31

"In RL the last person who I had a conversation with about smacking who said it did me no harm so what's wrong with it, is a aggressive selfish bigoted convicted violent offender who has absolutely no idea why he is not allowed to see any of his children without professional supervision or why agencies who work with him always send two staff members instead of one...I'm not sure I need to have actual evidence that his parents violent parenting and lack of consideration for him had a large contributing effect on his ability to grow up and be decent."

What nonsense! I was smacked as a child as a punishment and witnessed a lot of domestic violence, some directed at us. My husband comes from a very happy home and was smacked sometimes as a child. I would go as far to say that we would qualify, should the Daily Mail ever write an article about us, as 'pillars of the community'!

I don't have a problem with smacking used sparingly and appropriately.

"I'm wondering exactly what evidence the nspcc and every respected parenting program in the uk as well as all the other child related or parenting support services use to base there theory that smacking should not be a recommended disapline method. Surely given that they discourage it often actively then I reckon the evidence is out there."

That is a very naive view! The evidence must be there?!

pubmedcentralcanada.ca/pmcc/articles/PMC1118118/ is a little out of date (2000) but I have to make dinner and don't have time for a proper literature review of the evidence or lack of it, but there is no evidence that occasional smacking in a non-abusive household is harmful.

IneedAsockamnesty Tue 08-Jan-13 16:45:27

Oh my second from last post is supposed to say who say that not why say that.

IneedAsockamnesty Tue 08-Jan-13 16:43:49

I'm sure there are anon, but in that particular instance regarding that particular person I'm not sure I need to have actual evidence that his parents violent parenting and lack of consideration for him had a large contributing effect on his ability to grow up and be decent.

I'm wondering exactly what evidence the nspcc and every respected parenting program in the uk as well as all the other child related or parenting support services use to base there theory that smacking should not be a recommended disapline method. Surely given that they discourage it often actively then I reckon the evidence is out there.

Anonymumous Tue 08-Jan-13 12:27:33

Sockreturningpixie, I'm sure there are also plenty of aggressive, selfish, bigoted, convicted, violent offenders out there who weren't smacked as children. What possible evidence can you have to prove that your acquaintance's behaviour is all down to being smacked as a child?

Yes, I do smack my children on occasion. It doesn't have to hurt - my four-year-old is so thunderstruck by the very idea of being smacked that you only have to tap his hand lightly for him to become inconsolable. It is the message it gives them that is so important, not the level of pain you mete out. They instantly understand that they have gone beyond the bounds of ordinary misbehaviour and have done something totally unacceptable.

And of course we use other lesser punishments as well when necessary - usually the naughty step, or loss of pocket money or privileges. But that doesn't mean that smacking isn't a useful disciplinary tool at times, even if it's just the threat of it. Is it really all that different from threatening them with the naughty step? (Given that my eldest son would probably find a quick smack less traumatic than eight whole, tedious, terrible minutes on the dreaded naughty step...)

IneedAsockamnesty Tue 08-Jan-13 11:48:26

God no that wasn't aimed at you at all just violent types why say that.

Alisvolatpropiis Tue 08-Jan-13 11:40:49

Yes. I'm not one of them, thanks though Sockreturningpixie hmm

IneedAsockamnesty Tue 08-Jan-13 11:35:26

In RL the last person who I had a conversation with about smacking who said it did me no harm so what's wrong with it, is a aggressive selfish bigoted convicted violent offender who has absolutely no idea why he is not allowed to see any of his children without professional supervision or why agencies who work with him always send two staff members instead of one.

There are an awful lot of adults in the world just like him.

Alisvolatpropiis Tue 08-Jan-13 00:28:20

As I said earlier in the thread,I was smacked on occasion as a child. It hasn't affected my relationship with my parents,nor do I hit people who annoy me.

There are posters here who have obviously been horribly affected by being smacked,but they don't speak for everyone who had the odd smack as a child.

Dominodonkey Tue 08-Jan-13 00:01:50

Sir boobalot I think my sentence clearly explains why it is not relevant actually.

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