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Possibly unreasonable but a bit uncomfortable

(93 Posts)
Mamateur Thu 13-Dec-12 15:14:40

Early next year we are taking DP's brother away overseas to a drug rehabilitation clinic. We will be on a plane for 11 hours. To travel he needs to have not taken drugs for about 36 hours. He has come off drugs (heroin) for this amount of time before so I'm pretty sure he can do it. DP wants him to come here to us to go withdraw which I know involves a lot of vomiting and sweating.

AIBU not to want this to happen in our house? We have DS who is 3 and DN lives with us, he's 14 (but has been around his uncle in this state before and is now very anti-drugs as a result). Of course he will promise not to bring drugs into the house, or needles etc. (important, as he has hepatitis and possibly more) but can I be sure? We live somewhere he could reasonably get drugs if he wanted to.

He could go to his mum's but she lives 3 hours away and anyway I don't really trust her to be in control of the situation, and then we would have to get him over to us to get to the airport etc. and I don't want to risk wasting his ticket, treatment etc.

Corygal Wed 13-Feb-13 21:15:54

Well done all of you - what great news.

mamateur Wed 13-Feb-13 21:13:04

Thanks for checking in on me!

Well, actually, things have gone well. DP's brother was at our house for two nights before we left for our holiday. He had a pill to take to deal with the withdrawal (just one, nothing to take with him). I made him scrub himself pink and bought him nail clippers, razors and a new set of clothes. He was in a bad way on the flight but he stayed quiet and coped. He told me he was devastated he had wasted 13 years of his life and didn't intend to waste a single day more.

We took him to the monastery who were incredibly efficient and knowledgable about addiction.

We had a lovely holiday then picked him up two weeks later and he had one night in a five star hotel which he loved - before returning to his life in London. We talked to him a lot, but our expectations were low, since he was returning to his old scene.

Since then he has called us a lot. He is still clean (we know this) and about to start a TEFL. He has a very long way to go.

Thanks to all the poster who gave us great advice, M

Astelia Thu 24-Jan-13 03:13:58

I have just come across this thread Mamateur. I do hope it is working out for all of you.

DonkeysDontRideBicycles Thu 24-Jan-13 02:57:05

Wondering how you got on, Mamateur, is DP now DH? Were you able to enjoy your honeymoon? How's BIL?

Best wishes.

CanIHaveAPetGiraffePlease Sun 16-Dec-12 15:26:42

I would be having serious second thoughts about this. I think its quite dangerous for him to be in Thailand for all the reasons above (and its not "real" life could be escapism etc) and really if he's serious about wanting to stop you can go full speed ahead with all the UK NHS provision and working on a long term plan with rehab etc.

cantreachmytoes Sun 16-Dec-12 15:13:42

I have no experience with addicts so have nothing to add on that front, but I have travelled a lot and there is something screaming out of all of this: travelling with an addict to Thailand.

You need to be absolutely certain that he has no access to your, or DS's bags at any time, or coat pockets etc.: there is a reason people entering treatment centres are searched. Never mind what he gets up to when he's there and you're honeymooning, you need to be sure to get on the honeymoon and that it's not you or DP in the Bangkok Hilton.

Please be very, very careful.

Mamateur Sun 16-Dec-12 14:53:13

Thanks for all the advice on this thread. We are going up to see his DB this week and talk to him about organising a controlled withdrawal. We have never suggested rehab to him, I don't think anyone else has either. This is the first and only time he has ever asked for help but my concern is that this answer is a bit of a Disney answer for him.

My biggest worry is his behaviour on the plane as he won't have his tenants or fags let alone anything stronger, but ultimately he will be on his own if he decides to make life difficult for himself. I won't be wringing my hands over him, and I'm also prepared to just stay home with DS if I'm not happy with the way things are planned.

Footface Sat 15-Dec-12 19:45:06

I just wanted to add a bit about my bil, he's been an addict ( heroin and crack) for the best part of 20 years.

He is currently not welcome I'm our home as he came round once drugged up to the eye balls. Drugs have consumed the best part of his life so far. He has lost a lot through taking drugs

So far I think he's been in six rehab places, some outreach some residential in the last three years alone. This time he's been clean for about 6 months. It's only in the last 4 months that he has slightly become aware that others have feelings or emotions. Because the drugs are all consuming he really hasn't cared about anyone else.

He will say now that he wasn't ready previously to give up drugs because he couldn't, he used to blame the rehab programes but is now honest enough to say that actually he really enjoyed taking drugs particularly heroin and even through he told everyone he desperately wanted to give up, he didn't really and was just biding him time to get his next hit

I suppose my point is he's had so many fails to get where he is now, I really hope rehab works for your bil but in my experience they need a variety of support on their doorstep

faustina Sat 15-Dec-12 18:53:02

please be careful. I have direct experience of someone who did something very similar - at least that was the plan, except he came here to the uk to do the detox. I think he'd been clean about 36 hours. It was a long flight for him too. The clinic said it wasn't usually dangerous to quit suddenly like that - not dangerous like it is for alcoholics for instance. He was dozing, waiting for the taxi at Heathrow, and then suddenly he wasn't dozing anymore. The paramedics arrived. then he went into cardiac arrest. That was 18 months ago. He has a profound brain injury now. A full recovery is not expected. He had quit before, like your BIL, with no problems. They don't know if it was the long long flight, plus the withdrawal, but they suspect it might have been. Please think again

quoteunquote Sat 15-Dec-12 16:44:51

www.12steptreatmentcentres.com/Centres/Broadway_Lodge_44505.asp

ring them and have a chat, they also know about funding,and provide support for all the family.

cory Fri 14-Dec-12 18:47:07

Don't go anywhere if you haven't got insurance sorted. My BIL and his wife had a horrible time in Florida when they realised MIL hadn't declared her cancer to the insurance company: they were stuck with this sick woman who was suddenly completely paralysed and in pain and had no money to either bring her home early or pay for hospital treatment. I accept you are saying that he's on is own if he runs away or commits a crime- but what if he simply falls very ill and the insurance company refuse to cough up- could you shrug your shoulders and declare that he's on his own?

acceptableinthe80s Fri 14-Dec-12 16:51:21

Op I think you need to look into vaccinations asap if you're traveling in the new year. I'm no expert but think they have to be given x weeks in advance along with the malaria course. A friend of mine is currently in a coma with malaria and the outcome does'nt look good. Please don't take any chances.

MrsTerrysChocolateOrange Fri 14-Dec-12 16:02:33

I'm feeling a bit less worried now because you seem to have accepted that, should the worst happen, he is on his own. Keep in mind that the Thai Police will know that you are all travelling together. I'm sure you've heard the horror stories, knowing the area.

I mentioned the travel jobs because your BIL may not think about it and you don't want him going to Thailand and getting the other hepatitis. Insureance is a worry.

FWIW, try to research (actually get BIL or DH to) housing after treatment. People have a massively higher success rate if they are in appropriate, supported housing after treatment.

Mamateur Fri 14-Dec-12 11:30:44

We've been talking about that this morning, Moomins. I obviously have doubts about how successful this can be, but as with all DP's family, it is hard to help people who are so convinced they are right about everything.

I think if you can booking him in a unit to detox before you go would be a really good idea. The more support he ha the better his chances are. I hope it works out for you all.

Mamateur Fri 14-Dec-12 07:41:36

Tenpercenter, thanks. I agree! I'm glad your sister recovered.

I hate to think people are worrying about me or us. We are all very seasoned travellers and know the area. We are travelling with DS so everything will be safe, we're not exactly roughing it either. I will though, let DP guide his db through the airport etc. while I look after DS.

I suppose some of you are concerned that his DB will bring drugs with him. I won't leave this to chance.

Mamateur Fri 14-Dec-12 07:35:54

I realise the plan is unconventional. It is combined with a proper plan at a rehab unit in London where he will have counselling and blockers etc. We are just outsourcing the first bit to Thailand. If we did this bit with the clinic we are using here it would cost thousands. For several reasons, it specifically appeals to D choice.

If he runs off, gets caught with drugs and ends up in the Bangkok Hilton, that will be that. I mean, as I said, earlier,he is a grown man. I have to say I am not emotionally involved here as we are not close at all. We want to help and we can afford it, so we're prepared to give him one shot. I don't think it's dangerous for us.

However, I am not an idiot, I am getting advice from people directly involved in these programmes here, so I will not ignore them. I started this thread yesterday because DP booked the flights so it has become more real. We had to defer our wedding till when we get back. We don't do too badly for holiday so there will be other times.

The insurance is a VERY good point. I will look into that today. Jabs no problem though, surely we just get them.

Tiny, that's great! This place has a good success rate, but wherever you go there are always a lot of fails.

sugar yes that's me! DN is now a thriving, happy, confident teen. Well, he has his moments, but he's doing well at school and has a really good circle of friends. DP's DM is not to be relied on, of course, but he has withdrawn at her house many times before, without problem. It's just that I don't want him here.

I'm now thinking of booking him in a unit where we live here, then picking him up on the way to the airport. Will look at costs. The thing is, this is a chance we're giving him, but the rest is entirely up to him, if he wants to mess it up then he knows what's at stake.

I am not ignoring advice. I'll be working on some options today and will update. Thanks.

TenPercenter Fri 14-Dec-12 02:51:02

Sugarandspite your last sentence really made me giggle. You do sound like a lovely person Mamateur, I hate the attitude of "I have procreated, therefore no bugger else matters".

If you are planning on paying for treatment/implants/counselling when he comes back, would it not be more sensible to this beforehand? Obviously it would be too late for much now, but could he not withdraw before xmas and maybe get the implant?

Much sympathies for your whole family dealing with this. My sister was a heroin addict for a few years, I didn't have much contact because I was young, but She did manage to beat it and is fine now smile.

sugarandspite Fri 14-Dec-12 01:50:47

Mamateur - please forgive me, I may have you totally confused with another poster but your name rings a bell. Is it your DPs mother who used to have DN living with her until it became clear that she couldn't maintain appropriate routines / boundaries / healthy discipline etc?

If this is the case, are you truly confident that she will be able to apply such behaviours to managing your BILs short term detox? Can she be trusted to stand strong in the face of begging / lying / manipulating?

And just one final thought - your honeymoon should be a time for laughing, loving, dreaming up your future and focusing totally on your little family unit. Following your current plan will not allow you to do this - you will be constantly thinking and worrying about what BIL is up to.

Please don't allow your kindness and generosity to make you miss out on what should be such a special time.

I believe there is a reason most newlywed couples do not choose to take a drug-addicted sibling on honeymoon with them.

ilovesooty Fri 14-Dec-12 00:28:23

I work in the drug intervention programme and I second all the comments about the risks and danger associated with this course of action.

I simply can't understand why he isn't in treatment with your local, funded community drug team who would offer detox and rehab options within a planned recovery journey.

And I honestly think mixing your honeymoon in a country like Thailand with someone addicted to Class A substances is so dangerous it's unbelievable that you're even considering it.

TinyDancingHoofer Fri 14-Dec-12 00:15:06

OP you sound really lovely. I don't have any advice but a friend's mother went to a rehab in thailand and has been clean for a couple of years now so have hope it may all end well. Good luck.

I second all of the above ^^

It sounds like a mad plan, ill thought through and potentially fraught with danger.

Yes see if you can get him to see someone who can prescribe something to help with the detox.

If he's on meds it will be easier on him and those around him and if you can control the symptoms of withdrawral mil will be less likely to come into contact with any bodily fluids which will help with the hep risk

quoteunquote Thu 13-Dec-12 23:46:16

I can see many many things that can go wrong with all stages of your plan,

no part of the plan replicates successful recovery programs,

Which would be fine, because you could then try again with different methods,

Except you are locating the vital part of the plan in a country that has a death penalty for drugs, because drugs are so readily available.

the place you have chosen, has had people flee and get into serious difficulties, there problems that come afterwards when returning to home environment,

please get some specialist advice, and I recommend that you find a funded program here that provides ongoing support which will insure it is a permeant solution, where medical support is available,

any travel insurance you try to take out will be invalid as if you don't declare the addiction, it won't be valid should you go to claim,

I understand the desperation, and the lure of what appeals as solution,

Sometimes when a love one is endless hopeless addled addicted life, it's easy to latch on to what seems one stop wonder to end something that dominates the whole of family life.

please please get specialist advice, you may not like what you hear, it's frustrating, but you all need to go and really listen to how best to help your BiL.

MrsTerrysChocolateOrange Thu 13-Dec-12 22:58:11

What about travel jabs for Thailand and anti-malarial medication? Travel insurance? I don't know why I'm so worried. I did get hospitalised in Thailand so I know it can happen.

Just be careful and take care of yourself. Also, I know I sound paranoid... on the way home pack your own bags and don't let him near them for any time at all. Get rose ties on the zips so you know if the bag has been opened.

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