Really struggling with defiant 2 year old, tears from both tonight :-(

[Copper13]

Long, sorry....
Can anybody please advise/suggest ways to stop things escalating into frustration and tears over annoying,frustrating behaviours?
DD has just turned 2 years old, placed with us 9 months ago. We love her to bits, she is beautiful, funny and very articulate. She also NEVER runs out if energy and has a very hard time listening and following instructions/requests (only on her own terms but maybe that's just being 2 years old [confused ]
She's a thrower, ie if we don't carefully watch for signals that she has had enough to eat or she doesn't like something, she will frisbee the plate across the room. We started off gently gently telling her that she shouldn't do it, just say "had enough, no more" etc, this worked for a while then restarted last week. Then we said she had to help tidy it up after dinner which she did, then she moved on to throwing it and immediately saying "me tidy up" whilst laughing. In the last couple of days H has taken to saying that if she does it again then there will be no Peppa Pig/Ben and Holly for the rest of the day. She whinges for a couple of minutes but then runs off to her next activity. I'm not that keen on this "punishment" because it doesn't mean anything to her at the time If she flings her breakfast she doesn't get the "punishment"until late afternoon or bedtime
when she normally watches an episode or two.
She also throws her teddies out of the bed and calls for us to pick them up. We have a "if they get thrown again they'll stay on the shelf" rule. Ending up on the shelf is an almost nightly occurrence. (I always put her muzzie cloth and favourite toy back in with her)
In the last few days she has worked out how to remove her bed sack, sleep suit and nappy... She did it 5 x last night and peed on the bed meaning bed needed stripping etc. she eventually fell asleep with exhaustion with a vest and nappy on.
During bath tonight we chatted about how she needs to keep her clothes on at night so that she doesn't get cold and she said "yes mummy, brrrrr"!
I put her to bed tonight in the sack and poppered vest and she immediately started taking the sack off. I asked her not to but had already decided that if she did, I would not fight it, she won't be cold tonight without it. She took it off. Then started trying to take her vest off. I told her if she took it off she would end up with the toys on the shelf. She stood up and calmly handed me the toys one by one to put on the shelf "there you go mummy"
For some reason this pushed my buttons so I calmly (externally) walked out and sat in my bed for 5 minutes. When I went back in I picked her up and tried to give her a cuddle and talk calmly about keeping her clothes on. She screamed at me to " go out mummy" slapped me 3 times and pulled my hair. I'm afraid to say I rather firmly plonked her back in bed, raised my voice to "don't hit mummy, it makes mummy sad" and stormed out. She cried [cry] , I cried I walked back in, she giggled and said "want sack on" I picked her up again, gave her a big kiss and cuddle, told her I love her and always will but that mummy got a bit too cross and that I was sorry" she ignored this and asked for her sack again. I put itin her bed and asked her to lie on the sack so I could do it up, she grabbed the sack and threw it out of the bed. I told her that I was saying goodnight now and going downstairs.i said " if you don't want the sack that's fine, love you, goodnight darling" and left the room. Then I burst into tears again.
Is she being a particularly wilful toddler? How do other parents deal with these sorts of scenarios? I feel very inadequate as a parent at the moment and that I'm not dealing with this stage of toddlerdom well at all. The guilt that I plonked her down and shouted is enormous, I feel like because she is adopted I shouldn't ever let her push my buttons less I snap like tonight and make her feel that all adults are shouty and angry.
I really try not to "sweat the small stuff" and I know I'm sometimes guilty of trying to over explain why we do or don't do things to her. She is ONLY 2 after all.

Xx

[TarkaTheOtter]

OP, I have no experience of adoption. Nor any helpful suggestions (except can you put the sleeping bag on inside out so she can't get to the zip so easily). But I do have a 2.5yr old just like yours and it's tough.

[StrawberryMojito]

I don't think you should feel guilty, you can't ignore it if she has slapped you. It's not as if you slapped her back. I think she sounds like a normal toddler and yes, they are really hard work.

One thing though, is she still happy sleeping in the sack thing? It's awfully warm at night at the moment. She would maybe have more control over her temperature/comfort if she had a toddler duvet. She is then able to kick it off or pull it back up herself. I appreciate that's only one small part of the issue but it may help with bedtimes.

[GirlsWhoWearGlasses]

Don't beat yourself up. The toddler stage is enough to drive anyone batty. It sounds like you've been pretty restrained.

We have a DD of the same age and stage. She's been home six months.

Your post has me worried that we're being too strict. If she throws food, she gets one warning, if she does it again that is the end of dinner and we take her plate away. She then sits at the table til we finish eating.

We went through a spate of food throwing, but it seems to have calmed right down.

We just try for calm and consistent. We don't always succeed of course!

I agree with the other poster about the sleep sack. You can't make her keep it on, so perhaps switching to a duvet would give her more freedom.

There's all this pressure on adopters to be perfect, but we can't be, we're just parents like anyone else.

Try not to take it personally, she's just a toddler doing what toddlers do.

[RoganJosh]

I try a mixture of things. Generally working around situations to avoid a battle. They need to learn when you mean no, but there's nothing to be gained by saying it every three minutes.

I ignore attention seeking throwing and the phase passes sooner.

Distraction is the big one though.

We do magic 1,2,3 on the older ones, but hitting and hurting is a straight 3 ( straight to the bottom of the staiirs) for even the two yr old.

Picking your battles really does help. I try and work out if the thing in stressing about really affects our life or not.

[OurMiracle1106]

My little boy (now adopted) was pretty much the same as your little one at her age. Also getting himself undressed. He was from being about 12 months, able to manage to wriggle out of it. My only way was to wait til he fell asleep n go and sneakily put him back in it. (If he was awake he would be out within a minute) he was also good at being able to get out of his buggy straps

[TheresLotsOfFarmyardAnimals]

Hi op, a bit of relief when they've finally gone to bed.

I'm fairly non negotiable on lots of stuff but give a choice between 2 things where possible.

Re discipline I give 3 strikes and then time out on the naughty step. He has 2 minutes then has to say sorry and give a cuddle before he's free again.

Hitting or anything serious is straight to the step.

From reading the op I would suggest limiting time in her room at night so all routine downstairs then upstairs with the. 2 cuddly toys only.

I'd also use onesies for sleeping in and ditch the grobag

[Copper13]

Thank you, it's so hard isn't it? She is sooo active and has an answer for everything already..
Tarka, thank you that's a good idea about turning it inside out but Strawberry you're right,it might just be she's too warm and doesn't want to wear the blooming thing. Unfortunately this has a downside for us, (slightly tongue in cheek) putting her in it for her bedtime routine used to act like hypnosis to her,she'd be all snugly with us and listen to her bedtime story and be out like a light within 10 minutes, and in the morning we could bring her down in the sack, have a lovely cuddly 30-45 minutes of milk and Dinopaws etc! Without it, she's like a coiled spring who pings straight away.
Girls, I don't think you're being too strict,I think that maybe we should have followed a similar pattern ourselves several months ago.

Thanks so much for the support. On my own tonight and felt very alone and as I said, inadequate.
Xx

[TheresLotsOfFarmyardAnimals]

You're not inadequate! It's all about sharing your tricks that are temporarily working!!

[PourquoiPas]

I don't have any experience of adoption, but I have an awful lot of experience of stroppy two year olds.

In my experience two year olds like to push your buttons and if they find one that works they jump up and down on it until it breaks.

I try to give my two year old natural consequences rather than punishments, so if she won't walk nicely she has to hold my hand, if she throws food then she has to get down while we finish our food and (sometimes hastily created for the purpose) delicious dessert. Everything has to be immediate and logical rather than something to happen later as later doesn't really exist to a two year old.

A fab book which can really help you to feel in control is How to listen so kids will talk and how to talk so kids will listen. It helps you to create a script almost, to follow so you don't get upset and you don't overreact but the child knows that you are not happy and what is going to happen.

Don't take it too personally. She isn't being naughty to upset you, she's being naughty to see what will happen. It is still ok to tell her you don't like her behaviour. I wouldn't tell her that she makes you feel sad, I would express it as hitting is very unkind.

As an aside, my DD started taking off her sleeping bag so I put it on backwards and safety pin the zip up. We tried her with a duvet but she couldn't stay underneath it so bag it is!

Two year olds are seriously hard work. I'm hoping the harder the two year old the easier the teenager (right? Right?!)

[coolaschmoola]

My 2yo dd is exactly like this, although she's heading for three and starting to improve slightly. It's hard, hard work, but just as you feel you can't take anymore they seem to 'get' something, and you feel inordinately proud.

The only thing I find that helps is consistency. Decide what you are going to do as a sanction and do it. Every single time. I find that dd knows where she stands and what to expect if she does x,y,z. It also helps me remain calm and to separate emotion from the behaviour. I get less frustrated because there is a formula there. If this happens - that happens. End of.

It is still hard, but it will pass, and I aim to still have my sanity at the end of it. I don't have any experience of adoption - but your 2yo sounds just like mine - clever, engaging, infuriating, glorious, wilful, bold little monkeys. I tell myself that this tenacity she has now will stand her in good stead when she is faced with challenges in her life when she is older - it makes it slightly less annoying when she's tipped the pencil box all over the floor for the umpteenth time that day.

[stayathomegardener]

If it helps dd was exactly the same at two,sleep suit off,nappy off,wet cot in the morning.
I eventually gave up trying to negotiate and every day sewed two cotton threads on either side of the zip cut to about 1" and tied the zip together at night. I then opened it with one snip in the morning-took about three weeks to break the habit.
Sounds like you are doing an amazing job.

[idontlikealdi]

No experience on the adoption side of things but this just popped up on my active convos.

I would lose the sleep bag and if all else fails duct tape around the nappy for bed time - DTs did this for a while so we escorted to duct tape and back to front babygrows...

[Copper13]

Thanks for the further replies, sounds like there are a lot of similarly behaved children out there which sets my mind at rest a bit.
Our Miracle, 12 months, what an early starter!
I've just been up to her again to put some clothes in her cupboard. She's fast asleep with her muzzie and toy clutched tightly. I've given her a kiss and put a light blanket over her. I've also been a soft sap and put the other toys back in the bed. Listening to the monitor early in the morning always makes me smile as she chatters away to her stuffed friends :-)

[RandomMess]

You can get 0.5 tog sleeping bags which would help, I also put them on back to front and attached the zipper to a nappy pin

She sounds a full on toddler to me - less discussion and absolute consistancy with the consequences of the undesired behaviour. They live very much in the moment discussing keeping your night gear on is probably wasting your breath...

[Primadonnagirl]

Hang on a minute Op..you sound like a fab, loving Mum..don't be so hard on yourself..your little girl is clever and just trying to push your buttons cos she feels safe enough to do so.You have clearly created a loving environment for her and she's just being a little madam..this too shall pass

[3littlefrogs]

She has only just turned 2.
Don't assume that vocabulary in any way reflects understanding or emotional maturity.
She is behaving like a normal 2 year old.
Ignore the behaviour you don't like.
Remove the things she throws and don't give them back.
Distract.

When you react you are giving her attention, which is exactly what she wants. This is normal. If you only react to "good" behaviour and ignore/remove/distract WRT the rest, she will stop doing it.

Your first post indicates that you are interacting with her at the level of an older child and expecting her to understand and respond at an older level - maybe around the level of a child aged between 3 and 4..

"told her I love her and always will but that mummy got a bit too cross and that I was sorry" she ignored this and asked for her sack again. I put itin her bed and asked her to lie on the sack so I could do it up, she grabbed the sack and threw it out of the bed.

How on earth do you expect a child of her age to understand the concept and implications of this statement? What does the word love mean to a 2 year old? What is their concept of always? Of time?

It is all "here and now" at this age. Don't discuss the clothes, just put them on and fix them so she can't take them off. I used to sellotape DS2 into his nappy and put everything else on back to front so he couldn't undo anything.

[Copper13]

Random, you're right, I know you are. Sometimes I realise Im trying to talk to her like an older child in great detail, no wonder she switches off!
Prima, thank you, that's really kind of you to say so.

[MerryInthechelseahotel]

Try not to think of her as defiant. That will lead on to you thinking she should be different. Children at just 2 years old can be little monkeys but it is not through badness they are just exploring what happens if they do things and unfortunately they like a reaction! Remember everything is a phase. Probably in a few months you will be sitting with DH at night chuckling "do you remember when she wouldn't keep her clothes on at night"

[MerryInthechelseahotel]

Oh and this might be worth a read for you.

[Pedent]

No experience of adoption, but your daughter sounds just like ours, your parenting style sounds just like ours, and your self-doubt (let's call it "reflective practice") sounds just like ours.

I like to think that as she gets older my daughter's wilfulness will grow into determination, her stubbornness into persistence, and her disobedience into independence, making her well equipped to go out into the world.

[nothingcomestonothing]

Copper I could have written your post. The food throwing, the hitting, the nappy removing, all of it! DS is 2 1/2 and has been home 10 months. This morning I lost my temper and shouted after a bowl of cereal was tipped on the floor, I mopped it up and as soon as I turned my back to put the mess in the bin, what was left got tipped onto the table! No advice whatsoever, but some company!

[Copper13]

Thank you so much everyone, it's so good (in a warped way!) to know that the same situations are happening all over the place.
Xx

[Chicklette]

I also have a 2 and a half year old who does all of those behaviours so I can empathise! He has been with us for a year. With every annoying phase that he outgrows, I wish I had managed to stay more calm and ignore his throwing etc because really they are just phases. The longer that I parent, the more I am convinced that whether you shout, do the naughty step, ignore etc, the phase will last for as long as if will last. And obviously it nicer for everyone if you can just ignore, reflect, stay calm etc. I also adopted his younger sister and it's sooooo much easier to stay calm when she displays the same behaviours because I know they will pass. And whilst ALL children do these things, it is always worth keeping on mind that adopted children have more reason to test our love, patience, reliability and perm enhance than non adopted children. Also, 2 year olds must just be designed to push their parents buttons!! Hope it gets easier soon.

[Littlefish]

My mum made dd some sleep sacks that were just light cotton with no wadding at all. Like your dd, being put in her sleep sack was a big part of her routine. She never got too hot in her cotton sack, but still kept her routine. Do you know anyone who could make you one or two?