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I've applied to be a full time carer for DN - Question about SS Assessment

33 replies

MumGoneCrazy · 30/12/2010 20:23

My 6month old neice is under SS care and they mentioned adoption to her mother (who has been assessed as unable to care for her) unless family members are willing to step in, So I put my name forward and just before christmas we recieved a letter asking to reply in 7 days to confirm that I am willing to be a full time carer to neice, so I did and have now been told that her social worker will contact me after christmas to do an assessment.

I haven't heard anything yet but it's the christmas and new year period so expected that but was wondering if they make an appointment first or do a surprise visit? And what do they do while here?

Im not hopeful as I have 4DC (DS 10 and 3DD's 5,4 and 15months) and only have 3 bedrooms also DP lost his job before christmas so are now on benefits Sad but would really love to have DN here with family around her.

I haven't actually seen her yet as only people allowed to have contact were my DB and his ex (DN's mother) both supervised in centre.

TIA for replys or for even just reading this Grin

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gallicgirl · 30/12/2010 20:25

I'd be surprised if the financial situation was an issue but the space might be. The 10 year old boy wouldn't be allowed to share a room with the girls so it might depend on the size of the girl's room.

Hope it goes well anyway.

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MumGoneCrazy · 30/12/2010 20:38

At the moment DP, DD3 and I have the largest room while DD1 and DD2 have one room and DS the third room both are roughly same size DS's has an alcove while DD's is square with built in wardrobe but we would be willing to give our 3DD's the largest room as we were thinking it's time to move DD3 in with them anyway but have been putting it off because DD1 is very talkative at bedtime and has been known to stay awake for hours talkng to herself or waking DD2 for chats Grin

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maryz · 30/12/2010 22:22

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

MumGoneCrazy · 30/12/2010 22:37

Thank you for replying Smile

My brother is only allowed an hour supervised visit with her every 2wks and isn't allowed a say in anything that happens to her, he wasn't even put on the birth cert.

I stepped in because the social workers started talking adoption with DN's mother, before then we thought her assessments were going well (so she led us to believe) neither adoption or fostering were mentioned to me just the words "full time carer" so i dont really know but am willing to step up and do anything that needs to be done to keep her with family Smile

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flossymuldoon · 30/12/2010 22:40

Are you planning on just fostering her or are you planning in adopting her?

I have a friend who fostered her neice until her sister was able to take her back. She was assessed as a foster carer but they didn't intended to adopt her. The assessment will differ depending on your intentions.

We have just been through the adoption approval process and all social worker visits were planned and never suprise visits - so i am sure that they would contact you to make an appointment first.

I don't think your financial situtaion will matter too much as long as you can take care of her and as a foster carer i think you would get an allowance - my friend did.

Good luck!!

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maryz · 30/12/2010 22:46

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

MumGoneCrazy · 30/12/2010 22:51

Hi Flossy thanks for replying Im not sure what social's intentions are in regards of fostering or adoption but we would do whatever it takes, so I guess I'll just have to sit back, chill and wait for them to contact me.

How long roughly does an assessment take? And what do they look at?
I'm guessing they check with the DC's school, doctor and health visitor for any concerns with my Dc? and do police checks on myself and DP?

Sorry for all the questions Blush
I have so many running through my head and cant wait for the visit... Im excited but dont want to get my hopes up to much just incase Confused

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OnthefirsdayofMrsDeVere · 30/12/2010 23:00

Hi!

I just wrote a reply then flippin deleted it!

I will try again.

First off I would very strongly urge you to contact //www.frg.org.uk You really need to be clued up before you meet with SS. Its very important you know the law with regards to kinship (family) carers.

Do you know what SS expect of you i.e have they asked to foster, adopt or take on a Residence Order or Special guardianship Order for your Neice?

All these have different advantages and disadvantages. I would advise fostering in the beginning. You will be entitled to a lot more support and you are likely to need this. Its not like having your own baby, things can get very complicated.

I know I always bang on about money on these threads but it is very important. You mention you are on a low income already. Looking after someone elses child is much more expensive than looking after your own. For lots of reasons I wont bore everyone with right now. SS are quite likely to spin you a line - they cant give you any money because you are related to the child.

This is NOT TRUE and it is now law that they must give you the same allowance (excluding bonuses) as a non family foster carer.

Please phone FRG helpline ASAP.
Write down all the questions you want to ask SS
Dont be rushed into things until you are sure.
DO NOT whatever you do accept your niece as a Voluntary Placement. This is not - there must be a care order in place and SS are asking you to take her.
Make sure you get everything in writing and take notes of your own, if you want to ask SS anything do it by letter and keep a copy.

I am not trying to scare you or slag off SS but I just want you to be prepared for what could happen.

Things can get tricky when you care for a relative's child but the problems are not insumountable. SS should manage contacts, not you if its a problem.

I could go on for ages but I wont just now Smile but I am happy to answer any questions if I can.

BTW - I fostered my greatnephew straight from family court when he was a day off 8 weeks old (first time I had met him), we adopted him two years later (it took that long) and he is now nearly 8. At times it was incredibly stressful due to birth mum's demands and the bloody SS system, but I wouldnt be without my boy for a minute.

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MumGoneCrazy · 30/12/2010 23:08

DN is currently with foster carers and no we haven't seen her yet Sad
Neither has my mother or father or any of the family, we were told by DB that we had to wait until his court case for contact was finished then we could apply for it ourselves.

My brother only got contact in november then the talk of adoption came up so I told my brother to ask his solicitor what could be done and was told to put our names forward to care for her which we did, social services hasn't contacted us once since she was born in regards to contact or care. I haven't even spoke to her social worker, I phoned to say my letter was on it's way and was told she was on holiday and would be back on the 22nd dec and would be contacted after that.

As for my brother, the only contact i have with him is via phonecall or at family gatherings as this is what social services told me had to happen and if we do have DN and it is made stricter then so be it, he's an adult and can look after himself, my DN needs us more.

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OnthefirsdayofMrsDeVere · 30/12/2010 23:13

Its worth you knowing that SS are LEGALLY bound to explore all family possibilities before putting a child up for adoption outside the family.

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MumGoneCrazy · 30/12/2010 23:15

Oh god Confused

Any chance you could just happen to be here when they come? Grin

I find them very intimidating one even had me in tears forcing me to sign something i didn't want to with the threat of taking my DC away from me Angry

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MumGoneCrazy · 30/12/2010 23:17

I don't know if they had set any balls rolling with the adoption but they were talking to the mother about it maybe being the best choice for the baby

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hester · 30/12/2010 23:23

MrsDeVere has given brilliant advice, as usual.

I am an adoptive mother who has read social workers' reports on why family members have NOT been approved to foster or adopt a child in care. Although space and finances have come up as issues, the concern is more about resources generally: do you have the time, energy and emotional strength to take on another child? Will you be able to empathise with her emotional journey as she gets older and needs to understand why she is living as part of your family?

Very commonly IME, potential family adopters get turned down because they don't accept the need to prioritise the child's needs over their birth parents, and allow inappropriate access or communication.

You sound like a really thoughtful, committed and loving aunt. I think the main issue will be your resources, and you should definitely take MrsdeVere's advice and approach the conversation with SS as a mutual exploration of how this could work. If it's too much of a stretch for you, you won't be doing anyone any favours by taking it on. If you can make it work, however, you will be doing a wonderful thing for your DN. VEry best of luck.

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OnthefirsdayofMrsDeVere · 30/12/2010 23:25

They will probably be talking about adoption due to the baby's young age. You can adopt but you would need to think about your need for finacial support. Again, you can get this as family adopters if the placement is seen to be in the best interests of the child.

There has been a fair bit of research done that shows children placed within family do better than those in foster care (please no offence to my lovely adopter friends, I am talking about the what the system does to the kids)

I wish I could be with you Smile. Next best thing is to get on to the Family Rights Group. I wouldnt have my DS if it wasnt for them. You have to know your stuff. The more you know the less they can mess you about.

I hope it goes well for you.

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hester · 30/12/2010 23:31

No offence taken, MDV - I'm quite convinced that it is better for children to be adopted within the family where that is possible Smile

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maryz · 30/12/2010 23:32

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

OnthefirsdayofMrsDeVere · 30/12/2010 23:38

We were lucky that we heard about DS when he was very young and knew when he was being removed. We got in early and I refused point blank to allow him to go into FC before he came to us (I quoted all manner of laws and policies and best practices that I dredged from the back of my memory thanks to FRG - suprised the hell out of myself and the SW!).

So DS was with us all the way through. I know this is unusual and Maryz is right. So many kids go back and forth from birth parents to family member, foster care and back again. Its very sad.

You need to really think about the implications regarding your relationship with the baby's parents. My OH's family were very supportive and relieved that we were taking on DS. His birth mum was a nightmare but I didnt have a close relationship with her and was able to step away from it (eventually).

BUT we do always have the option of contact if she changes her ways which is good for DS. We also know lots about his history etc which is another advantage.

I wont tell you it was easy - nearly did me in but it was worth it. I wish I knew then what I did now though - hence me popping up on these thread and sticking my oar in Grin

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NanaNina · 30/12/2010 23:55

I have 30 years experience in fostering and adoption but retired 4 years ago and have been working independently, mostly assessing kinship carers. I agree with most of what Mrs DeVere says but a few more points come to mind.

I am not really clear about your brother's position as the father of the child. Is there a reason why he he does not want the care of the baby, or is it that SSD have assessed him as being unsuitable. The fact that his name isn't on the birth certificate doesn't really matter as he can gain parental responsibilty quite easily via the courts if he is the father of the child.

I am assuming he does not want the care of the child?

It sounds as though the SSD have made the decision that the baby is not to be reunited with the mother and they therefore need to make plans for her future care. They do have a duty to look to see if anyone in the extended family is suitable to offer the baby a home, before placing for fostering or adoption. However with a baby of just 6 months they will be looking at a permanent placement i.e. adoption, residence order or parental guardianship order, so that she will have continuity of care when she moves from her short term foster placement.

The most suitable way for relatives to care for a child (known as kinship care) is really by way of Special Guardianship. This is just 1 step away from adoption. Whereas an adoption order once made is final and cannot be revoked, a SGO can be, but if the natural parents wanted to have the baby returned they would have to seek leave of the court and the judge would have to be convinced that their cirucmstances have significantly changed. Also the judge would take into account the length of time the child had been with the relatives and how any change of placement would adversely affect the child. SGOs are relatively new legislation and I honestly think it very unlikely that a child placed under such an order would ever be returned to the parent.

Relatives can apply to adopt, and this is something that you would need to discuss with the social workers.

OK - about the assessment. No of course social workers don't make surprise visits! All social workers areunder a great deal of pressures these days, so you may have to be patient before someone comes out to see you. You will be able to have a full and frank discussion with the sw and if it seems likely that the baby could be placed with you, then an in depth assessment will be carried out.

The assessment for kinship carers is the same as for anyone wanting to foster or adopt. It looks at more or less every aspect of your life and I usually visit people about 6 times, each visit lasting around 2 hours. There are no trick questions, it is simply a matter of ensuring that the applicants are going to be suitable to care for the child for the rest of her life. They will be looking for permanent care because of her age, so will be wanting you to consider applying for adoption or SG. They may talk of Residence Order but I would not go down that route, simply because there are no real guidelines attached to ROrders, whereas with SG Orders, the s.w. has to carry out an assessment of what support you will need, and judges will not make the order until they have that report. Clearly you will need financial support. The only trouble with this, is that it is discretionary and can be altered or withdrawn although it does state in the SG legislation that no placement should be broken down for financial reasons.

Finance is mandatory for fostering and I think some has suggested you foster to begin with, but as I said the SSD will be wanting to make a permanent arrangement for the baby, because she is so young.

To be perfectly honest, were I assessing you (and I appreciate I know next to nothing about you) I would be concerned that you have 3 very young children, one as young as 15 months, and I would wonder whether you had the stamina to cope with another child. You will also need to think of how your other children would be affected by another child joining the family. What about the 10 year old - how might he feel.

The baby in question is going to need a great deal more care than a birth child because of the fact that she has been removed from her birth mother and will ultimately move again from her short term foster placement. She will need parents who can understnad how unsettled she may be and have the time to devote to the baby to ensure that she learns to trust that adults will care for her.

As others have mentioned one of the big problems in kinship care, is whether the applicants can keep the child safe from the parents and ensure that they put the child's needs first and she does not get caught in any "crossfire" in conflict between yourselves and the birth parents. Some relatives can obviously feel divided loyalties but the soc workers must be absolutely confident that you would protect the child and put her needs first. Space would be a problem, maybe not whenthey are all little, but what about when they are teenagers!

I am not surprised that SSD have not contacted you before being made aware that you were interested in putting yourselves forward to care for this baby. All matters concering the parents, the baby, the legal issues etc are confidential.

I suggest you phone the SSD again and ask when a social worker will be able to visit you. As I said you may have to be patient, but don't worry because the soc works have a duty to assess any relative who does put themselves forward.

Hope I haven't confused you too much. I know you are being encouraged to contact FRG, but to be honest I would talk with the social workers first, who should be able to answer all your queries and help you to understand the process. Please don't be disappointed though if they are concerned at the fact that you already have 4 children, and 3 under 5's.

Please come back if you need anything clarified, or any more queries. It's one step at a time really and you need to keep grounded, and be honest with yourselves - can you honestly cope with a 5th child.

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MumGoneCrazy · 31/12/2010 00:02

I dont have any contact with her mother but have talked to her once, I bumped into her while out shopping and she was on her way back from a visit with DN we only talked for a few mins about how baby was and she told me she waiting for her assessment to come back, that was last september, she's 18 and still under social care herself and was assessed as too immature to care for herself let alone a child, I didn't see that myself but i'm not a perfessional so cant say.

After DN was born she stayed with her mother for a few weeks under the care of her mothers foster parents then put with other foster carers because 1st foster carers didn't want them there any more and DN's mother was placed elsewhere separate from DN and told she had to be assessed.

None of our family knew they had been separated until my brother finally got a court date for contact in october. So couldn't get in there early enough Sad

Thank you all for the advice Smile
I'm off to check out that link and then get some sleep, I may be back for more advice and support Grin

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MumGoneCrazy · 31/12/2010 00:07

sorry x post

Only read 1st bit but wanted to answer your question re my brother...he is not allowed custody or proper access only supervised contact in a family centre. I cant really go into on here but I could do with some advice regarding him and if it would affect our application

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hester · 31/12/2010 00:13

Go and get that sleep, MGC, and come back when you want to talk more. We'll be here Smile

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OnthefirsdayofMrsDeVere · 31/12/2010 17:30

FRG is mainly made up of SWs and Solicitors. They usually know a great deal more about Kinship care than the average SW. SWs have an incredibly busy workload and many of them are new to the profession and often new to the country (due to chronic shortages).

I agree with much of what NN says but I would call FRG first. They are impartial. They have nothing to gain or lose by informing you of the law and good practice.

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MumGoneCrazy · 31/12/2010 19:31

Just found out from my mum that they are looking at guardianship.

I didn't have chance to phone them today as the kids wanted to spend their christmas money so we had a day out shopping now the snow has cleared and we're not snowed in anymore Smile

I'll get in touch with them after this weekend. Thank you all for the advice Smile

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NanaNina · 01/01/2011 13:47

I am not surprised about this as a Special Guardianship Order is the most appropriate way of securing the future of a child who is placed within the extended family.

The SS will be assessing you on this basis and the issues that need to be covered in this assessment and report that is presented to the court, are actually laid down by the government. You are entitled to have a copy of it.

Before the assessment begins, the sw should fully explain exactly what a Special Guardianshion Order means. It is comparatively new legislation (2006)and as I said before is just 1 step away from adoption.

The thing is the applicants need to make the application to the court, rather that the SS making it. Don't worry about this, it's a technicality really but it does have to be your application.

SWs carrying out a/ments for SGOs have tomake a recommendation to the court as to whether they can give a positive recommendation, i.e. they think the child's best interests will be served by being placed with you.

If there are significant concerns, the SW will discuss these with you and must tell you if they are not going to be able to give a positive recommendation. They must explain their concerns to you. If this happens you may need to consult a lawyer or the FRG, because you are not entitled to continue with the application if the SWs are not supporting you i.e. they do not think the child's best interests will be served by placement with you.

It IS in fact the duty of the SW to ensure that they place the child where they believe all of her needs can be best met. I think someone said on this thread "I would not allow them (SSD)to place the child in foster care" - I'm afraid that cannot be the case. She may well have put up a challenge which may have caused the SWs to take a different view, BUT it is clearly the duty of the SWs to make the decision about the child's future placement.

You could google Special Guardianship Order and will find all the info. You could also google "Adoption UK" and/or British Agencies for Fostering & Adoption (BAAF) and there is a wealth of info on the sites, and SGOs should now be included.

I am not saying that contacting FRG at all - as much info you can get is all to the good but you could get a bit overwhelmed. In my view it is best to get the sw to explain evrything to you, and if you don't understand anything then say so, and get them to explain again.

Incidentally you do need to give 3 months notice to the SSD of your intention to make application for a SGO in repsect of your neice. That's all that needs to be said, but it does have to be done in writing. Sometimes SWs don't know this themselves! Some people in your position will consult a lawyer but this is up to you.

If necessary I can explain exactly what a SGO means but you should be able to get it from google.

Happy to give any further advice if necessary.

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OnthefirsdayofMrsDeVere · 01/01/2011 16:12

It was me who said that NN as I am sure you are aware.

I knew that as we had been assessed and approved and that there were NO concerns re the suitability of the placement, SS could not just change their minds.
I knew this because I had the information I needed at hand. If I hadnt contacted FRG my son would have gone into FC and I think it unlikely he would have ever made it to us. As a hard to place child he would very probably still be bouncing around the system 7 years later.

As a SW of so many years standing you will be aware that decisions are not always taken in the best interests of the child. Budget contraints and personal agendas get in the way.

We were told that DS would come to us from court. I called SS to find out the time of the hearing the day before. SW told me 'oh you dont need to go, we have changed our minds, DS is going into foster care for now'
I then pointed out several things that resulted in being phoned back 20 minutes later and told 'yes you need to be at court to pick him up'.

Because they were not following best practice, procedure or the law and they knew it. It was only when the realised I knew it too that they changed their plans.

Why would a newborn going from birth mum into foster care be the best plan when an assessed, commited and approved home was waiting for him?

Sometimes we relatives just screw up plans dont we? SS had planned for DS to go into concurrent fostering and had a couple ready for him. I feel for this couple and hope that they have now had a child placed with them who didnt have family ready and willing and able to care for them.

To suggest that the OP or anyone may be 'overwhelmed' by the information given by a third party is patronising. If SS were more open and honest we wouldnt have to seek information elsewhere.

For example FRG would be able to give the OP advice on what to do if the LA tells her that she will have to pay for the SGO application. Seeking advice from a lawyer is excellent advice but at £80 an hour not always an option.

I obviously cannot match your years and years and years of experience as a SW but I have been involved in Kinship Care for a fair few years. There are far too many flaws in our system for me to feel comfortable advising the OP to just let SS get on with things. SWs are not the enemy. Overwork, tiny budgets, lack of training, stress and ridiculous deadlines are.

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