to be concerned re. what is going on re. immigration and population growth?

(1002 Posts)
ClarityJane Wed 06-Nov-13 20:52:57

So many non-English voices, especially East Europeans, but so many different nationalities en masse it seems have moved here in the last 10-20 years - completely unprecedented historically. And in an already very over-crowded island.

Today I read Labour MP Frank Field say that the population increase due to immigration by 2031, i.e. less than 20 years, will be approximately 10 million and will require building something like seven new Birminghams! Or another London! Based on latest predictions in the papers today anyway.

Did Blair and Mandelson envisage this when they signed up for European Community rules on immigration and refugees? Or did they cynically not care because it meant cheap labour, cheap votes, increased profits (via membership of the European Community).

Did the architects of this policy not consider how it would affect housing, jobs and education and the resulting massive investment needed there, and the over-crowded population we have already.

I believe we have never been consulted or told anything honestly about what the consequences of EC membership was immigration-wise, if indeed there was ever any plan (doesn't seem to be, just a kind of opportunistic carpetbaggers philosophy approach of selling England by the pound).

I feel deceived and hoodwinked really. But are there any more positive thoughts on this? I find it v. depressing.

We're not remotely overcrowded. Statistics do not bear this out. It's just political bullshit used to frighten people and pander to their racism.

Only 8% of Britain is even built on.

Wolfcub Wed 06-Nov-13 20:56:50

biscuit biscuit

ClarityJane Wed 06-Nov-13 20:56:58

p.s. I really would like to think more positively about this, if anyone has any bigger and more positive view of how things are unfolding ...

God sorry I got that statistically massively wrong blush hmm

Only 2.27% of Britain is built on

ClarityJane Wed 06-Nov-13 20:59:06

I'm not a racist just because I'm concerned biscuit. Anyone insinuating I am a racist just makes me feel furious! To my mind Uk is over-crowded. And 7 more Birminghams, did you read that?

notallytuts Wed 06-Nov-13 21:00:38

thebackbencher.co.uk/6-facts-need-know-honest-debate-immigration/

immigration is not what is causing our population problems

I didn't insinuate you were a racist.

There's plenty of room for 7 more Birminghams but it won't happen.

There's not much room in London but Britain isn't London.

If you put into Google 'Is Britain Overcrowded' the first 3 pages of results are right wing newspapers and dodgy political parties like the BNP.

What that should tell you is that only those with a xenophobic political agenda are banging on about this.

I'm not overcrowded in Hertfordshire. Are you overcrowded where you are?

DameDeepRedBetty Wed 06-Nov-13 21:05:09

What statistics Laurie? Are they based on the country as a whole island, including all the national parks, wildlife reserves, floodplains, marshes, Areas of Outstanding Natural Beauty, World Heritage Sites? In which case, percentage-wise yes, the country might not be over crowded. If you cut it down to the lowland, within sensible distance of public amenities, and not trashing the environmental and historic landscape part of the country, then it might be a different story.

TondelayoSchwarzkopf Wed 06-Nov-13 21:07:07

completely unprecedented historically

If you've never read any history.

ClarityJane Wed 06-Nov-13 21:07:34

I read that thread notallytuts - but I think its very simplistic and some of it is patently not true. I'm not sure about the woodland point, the UK has much reduced woodland already. You could build on there, but its not straightforward with no infrastructure. Although I am in favour of building more housing, I think posters are missing the point tbh.

harticus Wed 06-Nov-13 21:08:17

No overcrowding here.
Nearest neighbour is 10 miles away and I am only 1hr 50 mins from London.

This is all silly xenophobic Daily Mail toss.

TondelayoSchwarzkopf Wed 06-Nov-13 21:08:59

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Mylovelyboy Wed 06-Nov-13 21:09:12

I think its a massive worry. Shut the bloody gates angry

AnythingNotEverything Wed 06-Nov-13 21:11:59

In my mind your argument is null and void the minute you put immigrants and refugees in the same category.

Refugees are people fleeing impossible situations like torture and persecution. We cannot call ourselves a developed country if we refuse to help refugees. They are a world away from economic migrants (the vast majority of whom are entrepreneurs, not drains on the welfare state as claimed by many).

Strumpetron Wed 06-Nov-13 21:13:15

It's a massive worry, because the government isn't willing to put money into the resources we need even now. NHS is stretched to it's absolute limit, as is housing. Something will have to be done.

I've no qualms at all about people coming here and making a life here, but something must be done to make this a liveable, safe place for everyone.

ClarityJane Wed 06-Nov-13 21:13:31

It is totally unprecedented historically. I have read history so I do know what I am talking about, Tondey, so there is no need to be so rude and patronising.

Yes, I am over-crowded where I am. But I also travel a lot in the UK and see its effects, not just numerically, but socially (lack of jobs, housing, lack of social cohesion). It may not effect the rich and comfortable who have guaranteed income and housing, but it effects a lot of other people who are not-so-well-off.

Woodland is now higher than it was a 100 years ago. I only know this cos it was in the article I just got the 2.27% built on statistic (bbc site) grin

ClarityJane Wed 06-Nov-13 21:17:45

I can read my sentences and I am fully aware of what I am saying and I am not a racist I will say again.

Simply put, to want immigration controls is not the same as being a racist.

Its just naevity to say anything goes.

sooperdooper Wed 06-Nov-13 21:18:03

It's a massive worry, because the government isn't willing to put money into the resources we need even now. NHS is stretched to it's absolute limit

The NHS is funded by taxes, if people come here and work, they pay taxes, which pay for the NHS etc

People should stop reading the Daily Mail, it's a dangerous idiotic paper that fuels this kind of hysteria

According to these figures from the Office for National Statistics, fewer people are migrating to the UK according to the latest estimates on long-term migration

www.ons.gov.uk/ons/rel/migration1/migration-statistics-quarterly-report/may-2013/sty-long-term-international-migration.html

starkadder Wed 06-Nov-13 21:19:20

The UK has a chronic skills shortage as well as a rapidly ageing population.

Most immigrants come here to attempt to earn some good money - ie they pay tax, NI, and then they go home. They don't all stay and get old here.

Our country needs more immigrants, not less. This is what the statistics say.

I am on my phone so can't link to relevant research easily but a quick google found this - even the Daily Torygraph can see the issue www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/immigration/10185342/Britain-needs-millions-more-immigrants-to-reduce-strain-of-ageing-population.html

sooperdooper Wed 06-Nov-13 21:19:40

''Net long-term migration to the UK was 153,000 in the year to September 2012, significantly lower than the 242,000 estimated in the year to September 2011.''

www.ons.gov.uk/ons/rel/migration1/migration-statistics-quarterly-report/may-2013/sty-long-term-international-migration.html

JaquelineHyde Wed 06-Nov-13 21:22:19

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You do know that Germany and France have more refugees (proportionately) than the UK

Just saying

Squiffyagain Wed 06-Nov-13 21:23:00

You want a positive slant on this topic? I can give you one:-

Ignorant twats with ignorant and xenophobic views who consider themselves informed simply because the daily fail says it is so are fortunately very much in the minority.

well, it makes me feel better, anyway.

By the way, its 'naivety'

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